A Chat with Mae Krell: Debut Album Represents Journey Through Struggles & Sobriety

Mae Krell: 00:00:05

long, and so I I just never thought that I would have to

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internally deal with any I was putting

myself through, um, and so to begin

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to me feels like kind of a, a way of

acknowledging other people did things

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to hurt me, but I put myself in the

situations for those things distance

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from that and I'm no longer doing

those things, but I still have all of

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these fears and anxieties and leftover

pain from stuff that I put myself in.

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And How do you forgive

yourself and move on?

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and if you can't Can you at least

ask yourself to start doing it?

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And so that's kind of what to

begin as it's saying like the

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lyric and there's a lyric in it

if asking to belong is too much.

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Can I at least ask to begin?

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That's kind of what the lyric that

the song name comes from is so it's

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just saying like I don't know if I can

promise That I'm gonna be okay with all

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this stuff But I can promise that I'm

gonna try to be and like that's gonna

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

curious goldfish, a podcast community

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where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

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with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find curious goldfish and all the

major podcast and social media platforms.

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And of course, we have all of

our content on our website.

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Curious goldfish.

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com.

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I love a playlist called

Indie Folk Central.

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It's available on Spotify.

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Yes, but the one I love is the one that

plays on YouTube, curated by someone named

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Rufus, the YouTube version has simple

yet interesting graphics and includes

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meanings of songs while each one plays

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descriptions provided by

the artists themselves.

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I recall sometime late last year in 2023,

it was a cloudy, maybe even a rainy day,

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and a song started playing by a young

woman who sounded no older than 16.

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It was melancholy, yes, and maybe even

borderline what the kids call sad girl.

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But there was a sweet innocence

to it that it just drew me in.

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The artist singing was Mae Krell

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and in the spirit of curiosity, I

started to dig a little bit deeper into

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her story via Google and Instagram.

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She interested me because of her

New York roots and the fact that

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while she's now in her twenties,

she's lived an interesting life.

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Having started to photograph live

music events in her teens and attending

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the rehabilitation center in Utah.

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When most of the friends her age were

either in high school or college, she

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was late to learn music, fed up with

being behind the lens, taking pictures

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and capturing memories of musicians

doing things that she wanted to do.

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So she picked up the guitar.

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Mae opens up about her personal

journey, discussing the challenges she

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faced growing up in New York city, her

struggles as a teenager and how these

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experiences have shaped her music.

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She delves into the themes of

forgiveness, growth, and the

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healing power of songwriting.

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Specifically highlighting tracks from her

recently released album, I Might Be Grown.

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Mae also shares her thoughts on

the evolving music industry, the

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importance of building genuine

connections with fans, and her dream

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of traveling the country in an RV.

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She also plays two

songs for us at the end.

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Hopefully you will get a sense

of what drew me into her when I

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first heard her on that playlist.

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It doesn't have to be rainy outside.

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Here'seMay Krell of Brooklyn, New York.

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Let's dive in.

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Hi, Mae Nice to meet you.

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Thanks for

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joining.

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Mae Krell: Hi, thanks for

having me, nice to meet you.

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Jason English (Host): And you're,

uh, you're calling in today

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from, uh, your home in, uh, New

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York

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city,

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Mae Krell: Yes, in

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Jason English (Host): In Brooklyn.

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Um, and you grew up in Hell's Kitchen.

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Is that, is that

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what I've

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Mae Krell: Yeah, in the city, I

didn't go too far, just like switched

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boroughs to somewhere where I can

have a yard and a little bit more

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Jason English (Host): That's good.

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And you spent a little time in Utah,

which I thought was interesting.

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Was that, I think you said,

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was that like a

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boarding situation?

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Like,

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uh,

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Mae Krell: Um.

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I got shipped to one of those,

like, troubled teen centers.

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I feel like there's more

about it online now.

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Like, with Paris Hilton's documentary.

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And I think Netflix put out a recent one

as well that I've been meaning to watch.

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But, um, yeah, at the

time it was definitely not

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Jason English (Host): you know,

Colorado to me is like the

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beautiful West and then Utah is also

beautiful, but it's like a different

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planet.

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Mae Krell: no, I

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Jason English (Host): but I'm

sure you, you probably didn't,

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you probably didn't see much of it

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though, right?

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Mae Krell: Now, just like the little

section that we were at, and then we did

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go on a Moab trip, so I got to see Moab.

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I've been back since.

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I love Colorado, it's gorgeous.

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Um, and I've been back in Utah to like

travel, and I saw some of the parks

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in the south, and definitely agree.

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There's one very specific place that I

think of when I think of Utah looking at

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a different planet, and it's like the It's

like locally called Moon Landing Road in

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southern Utah and it just like looks like

you're on the moon when you get to the end

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of this like crazy like eight mile road.

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Um, and I show people

photos of it all the time.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, that's cool.

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That's, and that's different

than Hell's Kitchen, obviously.

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But,

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Mae Krell: Yeah.

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Jason English (Host): but you're, you're

going to be, so you, you know, you

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live in New York still, um, but you're

going to be hitting the road soon.

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Is this, I know you've toured before,

but is this sort of the first kind

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of, Big ish tour to obviously to

promote your first album, right?

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So is this, uh, is this

a bigger deal than most

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or are you used to something like

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Mae Krell: I've toured like longer

routes before, definitely farther out

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from home, but I've never done any

sort of even like co headline tour.

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So this is the first

shows I've played where.

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Like my friend Grace Gardner and

I are like co headlining them.

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I've been being out as

like an opening act.

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So, it feels like a bigger

deal for that reason.

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Um, but, and I am very excited.

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I've never been to Montreal.

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That one's, it's a city that

I've wanted to check out.

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And we have a show out

there, so I'm really excited.

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Jason English (Host): that's awesome.

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Yeah.

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And April's pretty big month, right?

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So you're, you're, you're

going on a tour this weekend.

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So this is the first week of April

that when we're talking, but it's

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this weekend and you're, you're doing

that for a few weeks and then the

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album comes out later

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this month,

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Mae Krell: Yeah, yeah, the

tour starts a week from today.

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And then, so like Tuesday, April 9th.

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And then the album is out on the 19th, and

we have an album release show in New York.

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So we're doing like a very quick

loop, like up to Boston, Montreal,

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Toronto, and then kind of through

back into like Chicago, Indianapolis,

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Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and back

to New York, all in 10 days.

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It's very like stacked back

to back, but I'm excited.

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Jason English (Host): so yeah.

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How excited are you?

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I mean, this has to be a process

that you've been working on for for

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quite a bit,

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Mae Krell: The album has definitely

been, like, a long, really big project.

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I mean, any, like, debut

full length is gonna be.

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Um, the tour kind of came about in a

very I don't wanna say accidental, but,

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um, I wanted to play an album release

show in New York, and I texted my

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friend Grace, who lives down in Philly,

and was like, hey, do you wanna come?

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Up to play this show and they were

like, yeah, I would love to like, do

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you want to try to play one in Boston?

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I've been meaning to play in Boston.

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I was like, yeah, I

want to play in Boston.

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And we just kind of kept like

snowballing and reaching out to venues.

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And, um, the responses were a

lot faster than I'm used to.

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I don't know if it's just the time of year

or what, but we booked this whole run,

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like in the span of a couple of weeks,

like really, really quick, um, which is

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unusual in my experience, but very lucky.

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So I am very excited about it.

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Jason English (Host): no, that's great.

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And you've been sort of dripping

out the individual singles

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for the last few months,

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right?

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Mae Krell: Yeah, Apollo

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Jason English (Host): How

long have you, how long?

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Yeah.

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How long have you been

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working on the album?

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Okay.

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Mae Krell: which was also

quintet, the first single,

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um, in like November of 2022.

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And then I started recording

the album in like June of: 2023

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So it wasn't a super long writing

process, all things considered.

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But I also, after Apollo song

was written in, in late: 2022

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Kind of very Purposefully and

intentionally was like I'm gonna write

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a record like I want to put out a full

length LP And that's what I want to write

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with that all in mind and so I think that

that like being that Intentional was what

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allowed the writing to kind of come in

what to me felt like a shorter time frame

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I may know some people write an album

in two weeks, but that would not be me.

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Otherwise and then we did the recording

over the summer of Last year and

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started like dropping out the singles

and Late september was the first one.

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So it's it's been

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It'll be like september like late

september through late april as

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like an album cycle which I don't

know how many months that is but

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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All right.

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No, that's good.

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That's good.

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So I came across your stuff.

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Um, uh, I'm a big follower of, uh, this

playlist on YouTube called Indie Folk

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Central.

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Uh, yeah.

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And, um, you know, it's one of

those things where they play

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so much, so much great music.

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And, you know, I'll look at the,

you know, look at the screen when

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it's on the television and I'll

pick up the artists and I'll look

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them up on Spotify or whatever.

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And, uh, um, yours was just distinct,

uh, among, uh, All the other sounds, you

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know, it's just like the soft delicate

sort of, um, it's like what I envision the

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perfect music to be on a, uh, you know,

don't think this is the wrong way, but

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like a rainy cloudy day, like at a coffee

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shop, you know?

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Mae Krell: Yes.

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No, that is the best compliment.

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I'm like, what are you

gonna take it the wrong way?

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I love that.

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Jason English (Host): So anyway, I was

like, okay, she seems really interesting.

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Uh, yeah, she seems very interesting.

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And so I started following

you and obviously listening.

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And, um, so anyway, that that's

the, that's how I came across,

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uh, your stuff, I guess.

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And I think in another interview, you've

talked about just the whole process

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of being an independent artist and

getting your name out there that it's

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a, it's a complete numbers game and,

uh, the hustle that it requires to, you

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know, basically just cold call and cold

email and cold DM, probably all these.

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Playlist curators.

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And I don't know if you did

that with Indie Folk Central.

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Um, but whatever that worked, uh,

however they found, found you out.

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It worked for me.

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Um, but yeah, talk, talk

about, talk about that.

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Like, is that something you signed

up for, uh, when you got into this

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or was that, has that been kind of a

surprise on, on what that process looks

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like to, to get your name out there?

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Mae Krell: So, yeah, I, I love Indie Folk

Central, I listen to their compilations

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as well, um, and I think I just submitted

through like their site, um, and Rufus

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was kind enough to like the songs and

want to add some of them, which is

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great, and I've done like two of their

like compilation albums on Spotify

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now as well, which has been really

cool, um, the promotion aspect and the

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way of going about it is definitely

something that I feel like is constantly.

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evolving and something that I'm learning

what works and what doesn't and what's

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worth putting your time into and what

isn't because a lot of Playlists like

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there's a value in everything but a lot

of playlists specifically on like Spotify,

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which is a big focus that people put

on Kind of only yields like a passive

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listenership And I think that can be great

depending on What your genre of music is

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and your choice and your goals, but it

that doesn't feel You to me, the more I

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kind of try to choose and internalize,

like, what do I want in my career?

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What do I want in making music?

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And a passive listener base that

like doesn't really care about the

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lyrics or have much of a connection

to anything past the sound of the

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song isn't really what I'm going for.

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So if I only have a limited

amount of time to spend.

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Promoting in a certain way like that over

time has been less and less the direction

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that I've been going And I think that

Indie Folk Central specifically is one

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of those exceptions where sure they have

a good listenership on Spotify But they

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make these compilations on YouTube where

people actually pay attention to the songs

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and they ask you to send a little blurb

about The song and I think it's a cool

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in between like a cross of This is still

a way to reach people, but it's also a

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way to reach people who might actually

care to then follow along with you as an

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artist, rather than just like a playlist

that someone shuffles and doesn't look at.

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Jason English (Host): Right.

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Well, you know, I started this podcast

just a few months ago and I've talked to

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a fair number of people since it's not

surprising, I guess, but one of the pieces

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of feedback I've gotten is, um, you know,

obviously everybody wants, you know, tens

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of millions of streams and, you know,

to headline all these big shows and all

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that, uh, or like most people, like that

would be the goal, but actually a lot

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of these independent artists that I've

talked to, um, They're completely happy

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and satisfied with the loyal fan base.

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Like, like you were talking about, like

the loyal fan base that will go and see

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them or host them at a, at a house show

or go and, and, and, and watch them in a

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listening room, you know, that actually

want to like have a, have a relationship

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with them as much as you can, you know,

virtually or like a fan and artist should,

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that's, you know, healthy and normal.

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Um, they actually.

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Prefer that, uh, as long as obviously

they can make a living and, you know,

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pay the bills and, and, and, and do what

they love to do, which I was kind of

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surprised because I thought, you know,

every artist, you know, the end goal

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would be to, you know, I don't know,

be, uh, headline, headline the big show.

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Like I said, is that

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is that where your head's at?

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Mae Krell: I think so, um, for

sure, like that's very much where

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I've developed to over time.

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But I also think that different artists

fanbases are just a different vibe.

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Um, like I, I went to the Zach Brian

show a couple of nights ago in Brooklyn.

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I love him.

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I love his recent self titled album.

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It's so good.

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And his fan base is so attentive,

um, in a way that I feel like shows

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that that size typically aren't.

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And there's a couple select artists that

I feel like I've seen live at different

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sizes, like maybe bigger than like a

club show, but not as big as an arena.

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Um, and it's kind of a lot of them

are like some of my current favorite

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artists that I'm so attentive to that.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Mae Krell: Overall, fan base

is very engaged and attentive.

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And so I think in an ideal world,

like you can headline the big show

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and also have your fan base be the

type that is attentive and cares.

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But I think that that usually requires a

really slow come up rather than a really

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fast overnight overnight in big quotes.

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But the, the, the like kind of

new age, like overnight success or

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whatever, where like a song does

really well on Tik Tok or like on.

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Reels or somewhere else and suddenly

everybody knows this one song of yours.

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I don't think that necessarily translates

to a dedicated fan base a lot of the

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time because they're dedicated to one

single song they came across recently.

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So when there's been a kind of like a

handful of different moments of that

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success that kind of jumps up over time

and I think that's what you see with these

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artists that are bigger but have that

really dedicated fan base, I think that's

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what creates the cross in between the two.

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And it's a lot of luck, and it's

a lot of talent, and it's a lot of

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dedication, and a lot of great songs.

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: 00:15:25

I feel like they're required for that.

302

: 00:15:28

Um, but that's the ideal to me,

is getting to a point where I can

303

: 00:15:32

obviously make a living doing this, but

can also play the big shows and have

304

: 00:15:37

people come and be really dedicated.

305

: 00:15:38

And I think it also

gives you a lot of power.

306

: 00:15:41

as a large artist as well when your

fan base is that dedicated to like put

307

: 00:15:44

the spotlight on new artists because

if your fans are that dedicated to you

308

: 00:15:47

they're also going to be dedicated to

someone that you bring on to open the

309

: 00:15:50

show and that also is like a really

big power to hold in your hands i would

310

: 00:15:55

imagine as like a big artist like that

311

: 00:15:58

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

312

: 00:15:58

And speaking of that, aren't you

going to open for a Harrison storm?

313

: 00:16:02

Mae Krell: yes yeah yeah i'm so excited

yeah on the 24th um in new york at

314

: 00:16:07

mercury lunch my favorite venue that's

my favorite like small new york venue

315

: 00:16:11

Jason English (Host): so

he's, he's pretty big.

316

: 00:16:12

I think he's got like a

million monthly listeners or

317

: 00:16:15

something like that.

318

: 00:16:15

Mae Krell: Yeah, I was like, kind

of, I think in shock because I had

319

: 00:16:18

heard of him before and I think I had

like one or two of his songs saved.

320

: 00:16:21

Um, but I didn't realize like how

big of a following he actually had.

321

: 00:16:25

I think because he's Australian.

322

: 00:16:27

So like, for him to have

the reach he has in the U.

323

: 00:16:29

S.

324

: 00:16:30

and be from a different country, I would

imagine the numbers have to be that big

325

: 00:16:33

because he probably had to build up a fan

base in Australia first before getting

326

: 00:16:36

over to like another country's reach.

327

: 00:16:39

Um, but I'm very excited.

328

: 00:16:41

I've heard really good things about him.

329

: 00:16:42

His live show and all the videos I've seen

have looked really cool, so I'm stoked

330

: 00:16:45

to open and then be able to watch it.

331

: 00:16:48

Jason English (Host): No, that's great.

332

: 00:16:49

So back to what the point you were making

about the, like the Zach, Brian example.

333

: 00:16:53

So obviously you're, you're

going to learn a lot, right.

334

: 00:16:56

Uh, once this album comes out

about the process and I'm sure

335

: 00:16:59

you'll, um, make mistakes and,

and respond and react and adjust.

336

: 00:17:05

But at this point, what are the two

or three things that you're like,

337

: 00:17:08

okay, for me to sort of build that

slow role, you know, in the, in that

338

: 00:17:13

loyalty, what are the two or three

things that you're, you're like, I

339

: 00:17:15

have to do, I'm going to have to do

like this year to, uh, to do that.

340

: 00:17:20

Mae Krell: Write good songs.

341

: 00:17:23

That's definitely important.

342

: 00:17:25

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

343

: 00:17:26

Mae Krell: I think continuing to

like foster the relationships that

344

: 00:17:30

I have with the fans that already

exist and being aware of how sacred

345

: 00:17:35

and special that is, because I think

that that's something that people can

346

: 00:17:38

lose sight of often and um, When a

347

: 00:17:43

Jason English (Host): what are some,

what are, what are, sorry, what

348

: 00:17:45

are some tangible examples of that?

349

: 00:17:47

Mae Krell: Like, there's a girl who

I met, I want to say she lives in

350

: 00:17:51

Chicago, who had me draw something

for her to get tattooed, and then I

351

: 00:17:57

got a message like two or three months

later with a picture of something that

352

: 00:18:00

I drew, like tattooed on her ankle.

353

: 00:18:03

Or, um, this last, the tour that I was on

last year, opening for Ethan Jewell, who

354

: 00:18:08

is like a great friend of mine and the

most wonderful musician and person ever.

355

: 00:18:12

His fan base is so dedicated, and

so There were some fans who came to

356

: 00:18:17

the shows that hadn't either known

my music before or like found out

357

: 00:18:21

about it from the tour announcement.

358

: 00:18:23

And they brought little

bracelets they handmade with like

359

: 00:18:25

their favorite songs on them.

360

: 00:18:27

Or like a lyric, as like a gift.

361

: 00:18:28

And you're like, you care.

362

: 00:18:30

Like you really care about this.

363

: 00:18:31

And to be then aware of that person and

um, You know, like there's certain kids

364

: 00:18:36

that like, they'll comment on like,

something on my Instagram and I'm like,

365

: 00:18:39

I know who you are, like, I know which

city you're in, I know which venue I met

366

: 00:18:42

you at, I remember this, I remember you

brought your dad and he was wearing this

367

: 00:18:45

flannel shirt, or like this other thing.

368

: 00:18:46

And they really appreciate that you look

at them as real people, because they are.

369

: 00:18:51

But I think that that's an experience

that as a fan you don't get very often.

370

: 00:18:55

Like I can, Kind of feel that from my

end when I'm a fan of someone as well,

371

: 00:18:59

like I just feel like a number in a

room so much of the time and you're

372

: 00:19:03

not, you know, that you're the only

reason that someone can make a living.

373

: 00:19:06

And so to to make sure that people

are aware that you appreciate what

374

: 00:19:09

they do for you Even if that's just

like posting on their instagram

375

: 00:19:12

story or sending it to their friend

like that makes a big difference,

376

: 00:19:14

too Even at a bigger artist level.

377

: 00:19:17

It still makes a big difference I found

artists with hundreds of thousands of

378

: 00:19:20

streams that I hadn't heard of before

because someone I know posted a song

379

: 00:19:23

and I was Like wait, this is really

really good And then became a fan of

380

: 00:19:26

them More like it was on someone's

playlist in the car and I like saved it.

381

: 00:19:30

So any sort of

382

: 00:19:33

Sharing music in like a real tangible

way I think has just as much if

383

: 00:19:37

not more value than like, you know,

the other, the stuff that people

384

: 00:19:40

expect is supposed to be helpful.

385

: 00:19:44

Jason English (Host): Okay.

386

: 00:19:44

So write good songs, do the little

things with fans, you know, that

387

: 00:19:48

kind of build that camaraderie.

388

: 00:19:50

What, uh, what else?

389

: 00:19:51

Mae Krell: probably try

to reach more of them.

390

: 00:19:54

Um, the internet is, I

struggle with that a lot.

391

: 00:19:58

Um, just from a time perspective, I

think, like I, I have a full time job.

392

: 00:20:04

Um, I have dogs and a

life to keep up with and.

393

: 00:20:10

I, I have one of my roommates, uh,

who's a really good friend of mine has

394

: 00:20:14

been helping with the PR for the album.

395

: 00:20:15

So like they've written like

the press releases and sent

396

: 00:20:17

out some stuff to people.

397

: 00:20:19

Um, and one of my best friends makes

those collages that we put on Instagram,

398

: 00:20:23

like when we post the stories and stuff.

399

: 00:20:25

But in the general sense,

like I, I do all of it myself.

400

: 00:20:28

Like I'm laying in bed at night instead

of going to bed, sending emails to people

401

: 00:20:32

about opening shows that I see announced

or, and like sending these DMs or doing

402

: 00:20:37

these things or responding to this thing.

403

: 00:20:39

And.

404

: 00:20:40

Um, I'm constantly exhausted, and so to

find time to then film and make videos

405

: 00:20:47

to be able to be as consistent as you

have to be on a lot of these platforms is

406

: 00:20:51

really tough, but I know it's like a, a

necessary thing, so I've been trying to

407

: 00:20:55

be better about it and readjust my kind

of commitments to make more time for it.

408

: 00:21:01

I think that's definitely

something I want to be doing

409

: 00:21:03

more.

410

: 00:21:05

Jason English (Host): I think I have

an idea, but give us a sense of like

411

: 00:21:07

the numbers involved with those emails.

412

: 00:21:09

Like, are we talking like a few dozen

over the course of a month or is it

413

: 00:21:12

hundreds and hundreds?

414

: 00:21:13

Yeah.

415

: 00:21:18

Mae Krell: not all at once.

416

: 00:21:18

It's like, oh, this tour was just

announced and there was no opener

417

: 00:21:22

and the rooms are a size that

like, I could like, make a pretty

418

: 00:21:26

sufficient help with my draw.

419

: 00:21:28

Like if the rooms are like 200 and I know

I can draw 30 to 40 people in each city

420

: 00:21:32

on this show, like this tour, it's worth

shooting an email over to management

421

: 00:21:35

and being like, okay, if you don't

have someone confirmed, like consider.

422

: 00:21:38

And I've gotten a handful of like,

local opening slots through doing

423

: 00:21:41

that, it's surprisingly effective.

424

: 00:21:43

I didn't really expect that at all.

425

: 00:21:45

Um, but it's, it's more like, just

constantly checking like, venue

426

: 00:21:49

websites and like, just seeing what

comes up on your socials to see.

427

: 00:21:53

Cause I, as much as the internet is

a really powerful tool for reaching

428

: 00:21:58

people, I really have found the most

success in opening slots, I think.

429

: 00:22:04

That's like a very classic thing that

people like undervalue now But if the fan

430

: 00:22:08

base that you're playing to is dedicated

and they trust the artists that they're

431

: 00:22:12

coming to see enough to bring them to

someone new then they come in with a

432

: 00:22:16

really like open like perspective of like

maybe this person is gonna be someone

433

: 00:22:21

that I'm gonna really enjoy and You know

people come and they buy your merch and

434

: 00:22:25

they come talk to you and you then see

them starting to like your Posts and

435

: 00:22:28

following you on socials and there's a

really tangible growth from that If you're

436

: 00:22:33

the type of artist that can harness it,

because I think that there's a certain

437

: 00:22:37

genre and like vibe and way of performing

and stage banter that benefits you a lot

438

: 00:22:44

more in those situations than others.

439

: 00:22:46

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

440

: 00:22:47

Yeah.

441

: 00:22:47

Oh, that's good.

442

: 00:22:48

Um, so I think on another interview to

you, this was a couple of years ago.

443

: 00:22:52

You were, you were sort of Well, I

don't know if debating is the right

444

: 00:22:57

term, but you were saying listen, I'm

in New York I grew up here apart from my

445

: 00:23:01

little stint in Utah You know, I'm being

here my whole life and you I think you

446

: 00:23:06

indicated like listen I want to I want

to I want to go to Nashville, right?

447

: 00:23:10

So is that something that

is still top of mind?

448

: 00:23:15

Did you try to do that at any point

since since since then and then

449

: 00:23:19

sort of a follow up question is?

450

: 00:23:22

Uh, What's it like being an

independent artist in New York?

451

: 00:23:25

Is, you know, is it, um, cause

I live in Atlanta and you know,

452

: 00:23:30

I, I, I see what that's like.

453

: 00:23:31

And I'm just wondering, you know,

is, is the big city, all that it's

454

: 00:23:35

cracked up to be, or is it like

a lot harder than it, than it,

455

: 00:23:37

Mae Krell: Uh, really Doug, a couple of

years ago, God, um, Nashville, I wanted

456

: 00:23:42

to be from Nashville before the pandemic.

457

: 00:23:44

I was planning on moving down

there and then COVID hit.

458

: 00:23:48

And so, like, everything changed, and by

the time that things were kind of starting

459

: 00:23:53

to go back to normal, my life was really

vastly different than it was before.

460

: 00:23:57

I think the biggest thing that stopped me

from moving down to Nashville, honestly,

461

: 00:24:00

was I work in the service industry.

462

: 00:24:02

And to make enough money to be

able to exist and fund music, I'd

463

: 00:24:07

probably have to bartend down there.

464

: 00:24:09

And as a sober person, I really

don't wanna exclusively bartend.

465

: 00:24:12

Like I work as a server and

a bartender now I do both at

466

: 00:24:14

the restaurants I work at.

467

: 00:24:15

And I think I would hate

having to bartend exclusively.

468

: 00:24:18

And, um, knowing that the cost of living

is pretty high, like it was just like

469

: 00:24:22

a technical adult decision to like not

move down there , um, unfortunately.

470

: 00:24:26

Um, but I have friends down there

and I, I enjoy it when I visit.

471

: 00:24:31

I don't know if it necessarily would be

the right fit for me now, looking back.

472

: 00:24:35

Um, I write everything, I

release pretty much on my own.

473

: 00:24:40

There's one song on my album

that my little sister and I

474

: 00:24:42

wrote together, and that's it.

475

: 00:24:44

Um, and Nashville is super

collaborative and I think that's

476

: 00:24:46

wonderful, but for my own project I

don't think it would do me justice.

477

: 00:24:50

In like a writing way.

478

: 00:24:51

Um, And I just don't think it's

the right fit, and that's okay.

479

: 00:24:56

Um, I'm very dead set on leaving New York.

480

: 00:25:00

Not for necessarily anywhere

specific, just leaving.

481

: 00:25:02

Um, and I, I think it's the music

scene, the way that everything is

482

: 00:25:07

in New York, and I'd like to imagine

other big cities, but I don't know,

483

: 00:25:11

because I only know what it's like here.

484

: 00:25:13

Everything changes so often.

485

: 00:25:15

You know, like, I walked by the block that

I grew up on today, and, like, half the

486

: 00:25:19

businesses that I remember being there

a couple years ago aren't there anymore.

487

: 00:25:22

And, like, even the really famous one

across the street that was, like, a

488

: 00:25:25

big, like, thing, like, closed down

while I was living there as a kid.

489

: 00:25:29

And neighborhoods change, and I

think the music scene is affected

490

: 00:25:33

by that, just like everything else.

491

: 00:25:35

Um I think that the music scene in New

York really thrives in kind of a weird way

492

: 00:25:40

in like the high school and college scene.

493

: 00:25:44

When I was in high school I used

to go to all these great shows in

494

: 00:25:47

people's like yards and um, like

places farther into Brooklyn and in

495

: 00:25:52

Rockaway Beach and it was so much fun.

496

: 00:25:54

And I didn't play music at the time.

497

: 00:25:55

I wish I had.

498

: 00:25:56

I think I would have

had a really great time.

499

: 00:25:58

But I loved going to these shows and I

had such an amazing experience doing that.

500

: 00:26:03

And then I can't speak to college, I

didn't go to school, but I know that

501

: 00:26:05

a lot of kids who go to like a lot of

the like NYU and kind of like music

502

: 00:26:10

programs say that they really enjoy that.

503

: 00:26:12

Um, I think that it's, it's not

a very friendly music scene.

504

: 00:26:21

And I, there's a lot of things

you could blame that on.

505

: 00:26:24

I feel like I end up kind of settling on.

506

: 00:26:27

The thought that people think of New

York as this very individualized place

507

: 00:26:32

and this individualized culture of

like, I come here to like, hustle and

508

: 00:26:36

get what I want and grow and whatever.

509

: 00:26:38

And I think that that's a very

like, outsider perspective to have.

510

: 00:26:41

Like, as someone who grew up here,

that's never been my experience

511

: 00:26:43

of New York, until I started

hanging around transplants.

512

: 00:26:47

Um, and I think that that really seeps its

way into everything, music scene included.

513

: 00:26:53

And it's really tough to meet people

that are just kind and want to make

514

: 00:26:59

music and want to be around you

because they like what you're doing

515

: 00:27:02

and not because of numbers or aren't

looking for all this underlying stuff.

516

: 00:27:06

And then, I mean, the, my closest

collaborator, my producer, Jake, Jacob

517

: 00:27:12

Leventhal, is also from New York.

518

: 00:27:14

Just like I, we didn't meet

like as kids or anything.

519

: 00:27:17

Like, I'm sure we've crossed paths because

the world here is so small, but he also

520

: 00:27:22

grew up here and a lot of his friends

that are musicians also grew up here.

521

: 00:27:26

And it's a lot of these like people who

are still trying to foster community in

522

: 00:27:30

a way that's really special, but in a

place where it seems to be very difficult.

523

: 00:27:34

Um, I really struggle with it.

524

: 00:27:36

I'm constantly looking to meet

more musicians and I find that I

525

: 00:27:40

have more musician friends spread

around the U S and I do here.

526

: 00:27:43

Even though I meet more people

here than I do other places.

527

: 00:27:47

Jason English (Host): Well in

terms of like wanting to be the

528

: 00:27:49

musician and the artist that you

want to be, do you think you're.

529

: 00:27:52

Do you think it's advantageous to you

that you're not part of Nashville or

530

: 00:27:56

Austin, you know, or, or whatever, and

that you're, you are in New York, or do

531

: 00:28:00

you think there's, you've got more work

to do to, to sort of get, get out there

532

: 00:28:04

and, and, and meet the right people.

533

: 00:28:07

Mae Krell: I think that it's, for me,

and maybe this'll change, or maybe this

534

: 00:28:12

is an incorrect perspective, but what I

feel like I'm missing the most is time.

535

: 00:28:17

And that time can be bought by a lower

cost of living, or by, I don't know,

536

: 00:28:22

someone who wants to give me money.

537

: 00:28:23

Like, but more realistically, by having

more time to like, put into learning

538

: 00:28:29

how to play my instrument better

and picking up, like, my girlfriend

539

: 00:28:32

got me a banjo for my birthday.

540

: 00:28:34

I really want to, like, start properly

playing it and I really want to play

541

: 00:28:36

mandolin and kind of spend time really

focusing in on a lot of these things

542

: 00:28:42

that I'd really like to do that I think

will make me a better musician and

543

: 00:28:45

a better writer and a better artist.

544

: 00:28:47

And the issue that I run into is

just I have to work a certain amount

545

: 00:28:51

of hours to afford to live, and

I have to work a certain amount

546

: 00:28:55

of additional hours to afford to

be able to record and make music.

547

: 00:28:59

On top of it and doing all of that

doesn't leave that much time to be

548

: 00:29:04

a musician Unfortunately, and it's a

constant struggle that I go through.

549

: 00:29:08

Um, a constant crisis that I

have I don't really think that

550

: 00:29:13

Being somewhere else will help.

551

: 00:29:15

I think it might hurt it

just in a technical way.

552

: 00:29:18

Like my experiences in restaurants,

New York restaurants have a really

553

: 00:29:22

high ceiling of where you can go.

554

: 00:29:24

And I've been in the industry

for a handful of years now.

555

: 00:29:27

And I just keep kind of

like inching my way up.

556

: 00:29:29

And as I do that, I buy

myself a little bit more time.

557

: 00:29:32

Like where I worked right before

COVID, I had to make the amount

558

: 00:29:36

I would have needed to live.

559

: 00:29:37

I would have had less time than I do now.

560

: 00:29:39

Um, and so it's, I feel like

if anything, I would feel.

561

: 00:29:44

More isolated somewhere where there

was more to do because I'd feel like

562

: 00:29:47

I'd be able to do even less of it You

know, like there's so much there's

563

: 00:29:51

so many shows going on in Nashville

and so many places to go and so many

564

: 00:29:54

people to meet And that's so cool I

feel like I enjoy it more when I visit

565

: 00:29:58

because I can visit and put my head a

hundred percent in that mindset Because

566

: 00:30:02

when I'm a visitor That's what I am.

567

: 00:30:04

I'm not working as a server.

568

: 00:30:07

I'm not making a living.

569

: 00:30:08

I'm on there As a visitor

for like a week or two.

570

: 00:30:12

So I can spend that time like

really involved in the local scene.

571

: 00:30:15

Whereas I think if I lived there

and I had to keep up with all these

572

: 00:30:19

other pieces, I probably would end

up doing less than I would like to.

573

: 00:30:22

And that would maybe end up

more isolating, but that's all

574

: 00:30:26

from an outside perspective.

575

: 00:30:27

I don't, I don't know

what it would actually be

576

: 00:30:30

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

577

: 00:30:30

Yeah.

578

: 00:30:31

Well, if it wasn't New York, where would

you, where would you want to be right now?

579

: 00:30:35

Mae Krell: Honestly, I want to be in some

sort of vehicle in the middle of nowhere.

580

: 00:30:41

Jason English (Host): Oh, wow.

581

: 00:30:42

There you go.

582

: 00:30:43

Mae Krell: I own an RV or like a,

or like a school bus or something.

583

: 00:30:47

I lived in, um, a rooftop tent with

Apollo for three and a half months on

584

: 00:30:51

top of my car and had the most amazing

time ever and that's when I started

585

: 00:30:55

writing the album, um, originally.

586

: 00:30:59

I need, I feel, I don't

own a lot of things.

587

: 00:31:01

I need very little, like, to, to be happy.

588

: 00:31:04

Um, I definitely, I feel like I own

more guitars than I own anything else.

589

: 00:31:09

But, um, That's my like, ideal scenario.

590

: 00:31:14

Yeah, and now Vanjo here

and hopefully Mendelyn

591

: 00:31:16

soon.

592

: 00:31:17

Yeah, I like the idea of being, being

able to have some sort of home base

593

: 00:31:21

that can travel where I can move around

and I can see places or be places in

594

: 00:31:27

kind of like a slow travel way where

I can integrate into a local scene and

595

: 00:31:33

spend time somewhere but not have to

like so heavily commit to being there

596

: 00:31:36

that if I end up unhappy I can't leave.

597

: 00:31:38

I have a lot of like

commitment issues in that way.

598

: 00:31:42

I think, um, not really.

599

: 00:31:44

I didn't go to school, so I

didn't leave New York for college.

600

: 00:31:48

I've never really had like a

temporary like leave from where

601

: 00:31:52

I'm from, like, By my own choice.

602

: 00:31:56

And I think that that's created a lot

of fear of like committing to somewhere

603

: 00:32:00

new and then being unhappy and then

having to figure out a way to leave.

604

: 00:32:03

Um, and so instead I'm like, well,

how can I cross in the middle and go

605

: 00:32:08

places without being trapped to them?

606

: 00:32:11

And there's so many like seasonal

jobs and things that you can do.

607

: 00:32:15

So that's, that's kind of my, my

short term, short term, longterm plan.

608

: 00:32:19

Ideally by next, next year

I can get out of here.

609

: 00:32:23

Jason English (Host): Okay.

610

: 00:32:24

Well, cool.

611

: 00:32:25

Well, um, so here's, here's the

great thing about music, right?

612

: 00:32:29

Uh, I'm almost 50.

613

: 00:32:33

I'm a male, almost 50 lives in the South.

614

: 00:32:36

And, uh, I feel connected to you who

is, you know, probably in her twenties,

615

: 00:32:41

I would imagine still, is that fair?

616

: 00:32:43

Mae Krell: Yeah, I'm 25

617

: 00:32:44

Jason English (Host): Female in her

twenties that, uh, lives in New York.

618

: 00:32:49

I'm a Christian.

619

: 00:32:50

I think you're Jewish.

620

: 00:32:51

Right?

621

: 00:32:52

So, so the opposites, uh, there's

a lot of opposites going on, right?

622

: 00:32:57

Um, but the music I feel

connected to you, right?

623

: 00:33:00

And I think that's the, that's

the brilliance of music in

624

: 00:33:03

general, but like, especially the

music that I've heard from you.

625

: 00:33:07

Um, so that's awesome.

626

: 00:33:09

And, uh, and I think the, the

songs that I've, that I've heard,

627

: 00:33:13

uh, off the new album are great.

628

: 00:33:14

And so that's, that's what I

want to jump into now, I guess.

629

: 00:33:17

Uh, the new album is called, I think.

630

: 00:33:19

Parentheses.

631

: 00:33:20

I might be grown.

632

: 00:33:21

So there's a little bit

of hesitation there.

633

: 00:33:23

Is that

634

: 00:33:24

Mae Krell: Yes, 100%.

635

: 00:33:26

For sure.

636

: 00:33:28

Jason English (Host): What's the,

uh, what's the genesis of that

637

: 00:33:30

Mae Krell: Um,

638

: 00:33:31

Jason English (Host):

like, like that title?

639

: 00:33:33

Mae Krell: yeah.

640

: 00:33:33

So the title is the closing lyric

of the album from the song Grown.

641

: 00:33:39

I like the idea of titling the record

something that wasn't necessarily a

642

: 00:33:43

track name, but kind of referenced one.

643

: 00:33:45

That was more of like a situation.

644

: 00:33:49

And after kind of going through

and getting a handful of options,

645

: 00:33:52

I landed in that direction.

646

: 00:33:54

Um, one grown is one of my, if not my

favorite song on the album, but I think

647

: 00:34:01

that a lot of, a lot of this, this album,

and really the overall concept of it is

648

: 00:34:07

this idea of growing up when you didn't

plan to, or you didn't think you would.

649

: 00:34:11

Um, And you just weren't really prepared

for any of it and how that feels

650

: 00:34:15

because the experiences of growing

up in that kind of like coming of age

651

: 00:34:19

are similar but different for everyone

but the ages at which you experience

652

: 00:34:23

them can be vastly different and that

can be for a lot of different reasons.

653

: 00:34:29

And I know that like, at 25, I'm

not grown up, I know I would like

654

: 00:34:32

to hope that I'm gonna keep growing

and changing and that this isn't

655

: 00:34:35

necessarily where I'm gonna land

forever, um, I'd like to believe that.

656

: 00:34:39

But there's also that piece of

like, well I'm not a kid anymore,

657

: 00:34:42

and I am settled into some sort of

adulthood, and that's something that

658

: 00:34:47

I never really thought I would have.

659

: 00:34:49

It's like that, that piece of like, living

longer than you ever thought you would.

660

: 00:34:52

And then somehow having more time

makes you feel like you don't

661

: 00:34:55

have enough because suddenly your

life is big and you want more time

662

: 00:34:58

than you ever thought you had.

663

: 00:34:59

Um, and it's this constant like

back and forth, um, feeling, but

664

: 00:35:05

having the album title land on,

like, I don't think I'm grown.

665

: 00:35:10

I don't think that naming the album

grown would have done it justice.

666

: 00:35:12

I don't think that the album is a

solid and, you know, And full thought

667

: 00:35:18

through, like, thought in that way.

668

: 00:35:20

I think that having it hesitate a little

bit is what makes it feel right, and

669

: 00:35:24

what makes it feel like it fits, kind of.

670

: 00:35:27

Jason English (Host): Okay.

671

: 00:35:28

No, that's cool.

672

: 00:35:30

I'm 50.

673

: 00:35:30

I don't think I'm grown

674

: 00:35:31

Mae Krell: There you go.

675

: 00:35:32

Jason English (Host): what it's worth.

676

: 00:35:33

So

677

: 00:35:34

Mae Krell: My mom says that all the time.

678

: 00:35:35

She's like, I'm 62 and I'm still

growing, I'm still changing all the time.

679

: 00:35:39

And I'm like, yeah mom, yeah you

680

: 00:35:40

are.

681

: 00:35:47

Jason English (Host): to.

682

: 00:35:47

follow you on Instagram, you're, you've

started to not only sprinkle some of the

683

: 00:35:50

singles out into the, into the universe,

but you're releasing these little excerpts

684

: 00:35:56

and little, I don't know what they're

called, but like little commentary, if

685

: 00:36:00

that's fair on, on some of the songs.

686

: 00:36:02

And so I want to read, uh, you did

this about a week or so ago, uh,

687

: 00:36:07

you, you titled it, um, to begin.

688

: 00:36:11

Uh, and it's, it's sort of like

this notion of, you know, beginning

689

: 00:36:14

stages of a healthy, healthy process.

690

: 00:36:19

Uh, you talk about like a messy start

and then, and then you say that the

691

: 00:36:24

sentiments of having to forgive your

younger self for actions that ended up

692

: 00:36:27

hurting you deep, hurting you deeply

as you grew up always seem difficult

693

: 00:36:33

for me and it still is, right?

694

: 00:36:37

So talk to us about that.

695

: 00:36:39

Mae Krell: Yeah, uh, to begin

is, is track two off the album.

696

: 00:36:43

So what I've been doing is as I've

been putting out the singles, I

697

: 00:36:47

did these little like collages

that Caro and my friend made with

698

: 00:36:50

like the storyline of the songs.

699

: 00:36:52

And then now that we had like a

certain amount of time left between

700

: 00:36:56

the last single we put out in the

album, we've been putting out these

701

: 00:36:59

little explanations of the songs.

702

: 00:37:02

The remaining songs that aren't singles

to kind of give an opportunity to

703

: 00:37:05

have like the narrative of those.

704

: 00:37:06

So like I, I have one on my desktop that I

need to write and post, um, for tomorrow.

705

: 00:37:12

And to begin as I wrote it

in like February of: 2023

706

: 00:37:20

So it was kind of like in the

middle process of writing the album.

707

: 00:37:25

And it kind of became like.

708

: 00:37:29

The opening.

709

: 00:37:30

So there's the intro track, which is

Garden 2, and then to begin kind of

710

: 00:37:34

is the opening of the album and like

you mentioned like it's meant to be

711

: 00:37:37

the kind of like uncomfortable messy

start of both the project and the

712

: 00:37:41

storyline that we're kind of coming into.

713

: 00:37:44

Um, I made a lot of

mistakes when I was younger.

714

: 00:37:49

I think It's a product of struggling

really deeply, having a little bit too

715

: 00:37:54

much access to freedom, living in a big

city where there just, there's everything

716

: 00:37:58

around you all the time, and also just

717

: 00:38:00

not really thinking that I

would ever have to live with or

718

: 00:38:05

experience the consequences that

would come from my own actions.

719

: 00:38:08

Like, I just didn't really think I

would stick around very long, and so I,

720

: 00:38:12

I just never thought that I would have

to internally deal with any of what.

721

: 00:38:18

I was putting myself through, um, and

so to begin to me feels like kind of a,

722

: 00:38:26

a way of acknowledging other people did

things to hurt me, but I put myself in the

723

: 00:38:31

situations for those things to be done.

724

: 00:38:34

And now I'm distance from that and

I'm no longer doing those things,

725

: 00:38:38

but I still have all of these fears

and anxieties and leftover pain

726

: 00:38:43

from stuff that I put myself in.

727

: 00:38:45

And how do you, How do you

forgive yourself and move on?

728

: 00:38:51

and if you can't Can you at least

ask yourself to start doing it?

729

: 00:38:55

And so that's kind of what to

begin as it's saying like the

730

: 00:38:57

lyric and there's a lyric in it

if asking to belong is too much.

731

: 00:39:02

Can I at least ask to begin?

732

: 00:39:04

That's kind of what the lyric that the

song name comes from is so it's just

733

: 00:39:07

saying like I don't know if I can promise

That I'm gonna be okay with all this stuff

734

: 00:39:12

But I can promise that I'm gonna try to

be and like that's gonna have to be enough

735

: 00:39:18

Jason English (Host):

Well, that's amazing.

736

: 00:39:19

Yeah, that's really good.

737

: 00:39:20

Um, what other tracks I imagine I, I know

I, I was the one that brought, brought

738

: 00:39:26

that up, but what other songs kind of

stick out to you, um, in terms of the,

739

: 00:39:31

obviously I'm sure it's the whole album

for you, but, uh, what are the, what are

740

: 00:39:35

the one or two other tracks that sort

of represent you the best, do you think?

741

: 00:39:40

Um, and, and where you're at and, and what

you want to accomplish with this album?

742

: 00:39:44

Mae Krell: Yeah, um, from, I guess,

including all of them, like, not only

743

: 00:39:50

the singles or non singles, um, Apollo's

Song and Grown, track 10, track 11, uh,

744

: 00:39:57

both of which were singles, kind of feel

like the, the wrap up of the project is

745

: 00:40:03

like, here's what we just went through,

here's what we're feeling, here it is

746

: 00:40:07

wrapped into like a clean storyline.

747

: 00:40:09

Um, They're both really,

really special to me.

748

: 00:40:13

It was also the first and last song

that were written for the album.

749

: 00:40:15

So I wrote Apollo's song

first and I wrote Grown last.

750

: 00:40:18

Um,

751

: 00:40:19

Yeah.

752

: 00:40:20

and sorry, the puppy is

requesting to be brought back in.

753

: 00:40:23

So you can

754

: 00:40:24

Is that Apollo or

755

: 00:40:24

cut that out.

756

: 00:40:25

No, it's the puppy.

757

: 00:40:26

Um, but, yeah, I wrote

Come on, here you go.

758

: 00:40:34

Go over there.

759

: 00:40:35

Um, Apollo's still asleep.

760

: 00:40:38

Um Yeah, Apollo's song is kind of this

761

: 00:40:45

projection onto my dog of seeing her age

and in turn realizing that I am also aging

762

: 00:40:54

and that I will likely continue to age as

my dog gets so old that she passes away.

763

: 00:41:01

And when I got her, like, I

didn't think that I would.

764

: 00:41:04

would live longer than she did.

765

: 00:41:06

I, I just didn't really plan to.

766

: 00:41:08

And so that's, that song is kind of like

following that type of idea and, and how

767

: 00:41:13

things change and like my best friend is

getting married soon and, and your life

768

: 00:41:17

is just suddenly this whole big thing

that you just never really imagined would

769

: 00:41:23

be real and that's really, really cool.

770

: 00:41:25

And it's also terrifying and it's

also beautiful and everything, you

771

: 00:41:30

know, can reach that point, but

you have to stick around for it.

772

: 00:41:34

And that's the hard part.

773

: 00:41:35

Like, it's gonna get there, but

sticking around through everything

774

: 00:41:37

else to get to that point is really

difficult, and like, acknowledging that.

775

: 00:41:41

Um, and grown is kind of sitting in

with a lot of fear and anxiety and the

776

: 00:41:50

feelings that I have about adulthood and

myself and aging and like the crisis I

777

: 00:41:57

have every year when I have a birthday.

778

: 00:41:59

Um, and I that that's the one

that I feel like is most Like I'm

779

: 00:42:05

most connected to like in this

exact moment But it definitely

780

: 00:42:09

can change like as time goes on.

781

: 00:42:11

Too hard is also really really special

to me That's the one my little sister

782

: 00:42:14

helped me write or helped me finish it

783

: 00:42:15

off um And that one started as like a

complete stream of consciousness Like

784

: 00:42:20

i'm not writing music and I need to

force myself to write something i'm

785

: 00:42:23

gonna play You really simple chords and

just like spit out what I'm feeling.

786

: 00:42:29

And then it got, it developed from

that into something bigger and um,

787

: 00:42:35

into like a really, I, I think probably

the most personal song on the whole

788

: 00:42:41

project, which says a lot considering

the whole thing is really personal.

789

: 00:42:45

Um, but just about this fear of like

being loved and in turn a fear of being

790

: 00:42:48

known both by herself and by other people.

791

: 00:42:50

I think those are kind of the ones that

I'm most Attached to in this moment.

792

: 00:42:57

Jason English (Host): Okay.

793

: 00:42:58

So you've alluded to it a few times,

and I don't want to assume anything,

794

: 00:43:02

and I'm trying to make the connection

with what you said about you didn't

795

: 00:43:05

think you'd outlive Apollo, and then,

you know, possibly, I don't know if

796

: 00:43:09

your time in Utah, but like, did you,

did you struggle with sort of, you

797

: 00:43:13

know, Suicide or do you think that,

you know, drugs were going to kill you?

798

: 00:43:17

Like what, what was, what was the,

799

: 00:43:19

Mae Krell: Just like

all, all of the above.

800

: 00:43:21

It was going to be anything in my

head that, just anything at all.

801

: 00:43:26

I just didn't, I think there was

just so many points in my, my life

802

: 00:43:30

when I was younger that I was so

unhappy and I didn't really know why.

803

: 00:43:36

Like I couldn't pinpoint it.

804

: 00:43:37

Like nothing at times,

nothing was really wrong.

805

: 00:43:40

I just felt a certain way.

806

: 00:43:42

Before you have, like, the privilege

to get into an office with a doctor

807

: 00:43:47

who's kind and understanding and normal,

because unfortunately that's not super

808

: 00:43:51

common in my experience, and to have

someone, like, understand and listen

809

: 00:43:56

and help figure out what's going on,

you just feel like some sort of alien.

810

: 00:44:00

You know, like, when you're the only

person in your immediate surrounding

811

: 00:44:04

that's struggling with this, It's

whatever that is, whether it's

812

: 00:44:06

like addiction or like suicidal

ideation or depression or anxiety

813

: 00:44:12

or anything else, like mood swings.

814

: 00:44:14

If nobody else around you is,

is experiencing that to the same

815

: 00:44:17

degree and nobody is treating

it as anything other than acting

816

: 00:44:21

out, you just kind of feel insane.

817

: 00:44:23

And I think that that contributes

a lot to making these like negative

818

: 00:44:29

decisions to try to like fix it.

819

: 00:44:30

But, you know, like I, I'm like very

like thankful and, um, excited to

820

: 00:44:35

live and be sober now, but for a

long time, like when I was younger,

821

: 00:44:40

drugs were what kept me alive.

822

: 00:44:42

You know, I don't think I would have stuck

around if I didn't have something to make

823

: 00:44:45

me feel okay, even though it then got to

a point where it almost killed me later.

824

: 00:44:49

And so the followup was, I'm lucky that

I was able to get away from that and

825

: 00:44:52

now live a full life without substances.

826

: 00:44:55

But there's always, there's that double

edge to everything where sometimes the

827

: 00:45:00

things that are really bad for you, keep

you going long enough to find what you.

828

: 00:45:03

Needed that is gonna be good for you or to

find the help that you needed to be okay

829

: 00:45:08

Jason English (Host): Right.

830

: 00:45:09

Did your, did your challenges

happen mostly before the

831

: 00:45:12

pandemic

832

: 00:45:14

Mae Krell: Yeah, I was

833

: 00:45:15

Jason English (Host): was there overlap?

834

: 00:45:16

Mae Krell: Mean like here and there I

feel like the primary like my primary

835

: 00:45:22

issues like that before they were When

I felt really hopeless like the point

836

: 00:45:27

that I was struggling so much that

there was absolutely no hope on the

837

: 00:45:30

horizon at all was like in my teenage

years into like Being like, maybe 20.

838

: 00:45:36

I got sober for the first time when

I was like, two months shy of 19.

839

: 00:45:40

Um, and it's been like, in and out.

840

: 00:45:42

And now I feel like I'm in a really

like, solid point of like, almost

841

: 00:45:45

three years of sobriety, um, again.

842

: 00:45:48

Which is wonderful.

843

: 00:45:49

But it was definitely like, primarily

when I was younger, I think once I kind

844

: 00:45:54

of was into a solid point of sobriety.

845

: 00:45:58

The first time around, I had regained

a sort of like hope for living.

846

: 00:46:02

Like my life was getting bigger and I

was like making friends and being around

847

: 00:46:07

people who like wanted to be around

me and my family was excited to be

848

: 00:46:10

around me and my dog wanted to see me.

849

: 00:46:12

And, um, I was able to develop

like genuine friendships with depth

850

: 00:46:16

because I was a full person who was

in front of someone and not some

851

: 00:46:19

sort of like shell of something.

852

: 00:46:21

And.

853

: 00:46:22

having like a relapse doesn't necessarily

take that away or change it rather than

854

: 00:46:27

when you're constantly in that space

and have never been outside of it.

855

: 00:46:30

So I feel like the,

like, I still struggle.

856

: 00:46:34

It's not like any of this stuff is

like a, you know, you, you get better

857

: 00:46:38

and it switches off, but it's a very

different type of struggle because

858

: 00:46:42

there's an awareness that all of it

is can be for something, you know,

859

: 00:46:48

like I've had, I can think of a couple

distinct moments that I've had where,

860

: 00:46:53

um, mostly music related, that I'm

just kind of like, oh, like all this

861

: 00:46:59

hard stuff, like is, is worth something

because it might benefit someone else.

862

: 00:47:03

Um, and, and having

863

: 00:47:05

that

864

: 00:47:05

awareness is what makes the struggle

feel very different to me rather than

865

: 00:47:10

just kind of endless and hopeless.

866

: 00:47:13

Being able

867

: 00:47:13

Jason English (Host): So I think,

uh, I think you had said at one

868

: 00:47:16

point that you wrote your first

song, I think when you were 16, even

869

: 00:47:19

before you knew how to play guitar.

870

: 00:47:21

Um, how did that process of, you know,

kind of leaving your interests as a

871

: 00:47:28

hobby and as a job with the, with the,

you know, you used to be a concert,

872

: 00:47:32

you know, photographer and all that.

873

: 00:47:34

And then you, you kind of tilted

towards the, to the music.

874

: 00:47:39

It seems like, you know, the struggles

that you just just that you just

875

: 00:47:41

articulated, how much did music play a

role in, um, either distracting you from

876

: 00:47:48

from some of that hardship and struggle?

877

: 00:47:52

Uh, did it play any role?

878

: 00:47:54

I guess I don't want to make an

assumption that it was like the savior

879

: 00:47:57

or anything, but like, how do you

think you would have been the artist

880

: 00:48:00

and musician that you are today?

881

: 00:48:02

Kind of without that struggle.

882

: 00:48:03

And then did it, did it help

you kind of get out of that?

883

: 00:48:06

And it becomes

884

: 00:48:07

over.

885

: 00:48:07

Mae Krell: Yeah, I think that I don't

think I would be the same musician that

886

: 00:48:11

I am today without the stuff that I've

gone through because so much of what I

887

: 00:48:17

write about is in that spirit of like kind

of trying to reach people and especially

888

: 00:48:25

for me like teenagers like people love

to joke about like the fan your fan base

889

: 00:48:29

being like younger or Whatever, but I

really like cherish the fact that the

890

: 00:48:33

fan base that I have are like younger

You Like, you know, at some points,

891

: 00:48:37

like, kids and teenagers, a lot of times,

like, queer kids from, like, states where

892

: 00:48:41

maybe they can't really be comfortable

or out the same way that they would be

893

: 00:48:45

somewhere else, and they see someone

that is grown up compared to them and

894

: 00:48:51

living a life that's, like, authentic

and, like, They're just so excited about

895

: 00:48:55

that because to them they see hope in it

and like that's so special and so cool

896

: 00:48:59

Um, and not something that I ever thought

about before I started making music.

897

: 00:49:02

I don't think I like conceptualized

that at all um as like a reality that

898

: 00:49:07

could exist um And I think that I'd

probably make very different music if

899

: 00:49:15

I hadn't experienced what I did But I

also would be a vastly different person

900

: 00:49:20

um And that's a weird thing to think

about because You know, you want to be

901

: 00:49:24

like, I'm not my experiences and I'm

not like the things I've struggled with.

902

: 00:49:28

And I think it's, they don't, those things

don't necessarily define you, but they do

903

: 00:49:34

put you in a place to then use them for

good if you want to, if you're able to.

904

: 00:49:38

Um, you know, it would have helped

me as like a 16, 15, 14 year old to

905

: 00:49:46

see someone that felt tangible to me

that was like living authentically.

906

: 00:49:50

And.

907

: 00:49:52

is healthy and has been through

something that I maybe either struggle

908

: 00:49:55

with or something similar to and isn't

pretending like they're healed or

909

: 00:50:00

fixed from it, but just is Showing some

sort of hope that it can get better.

910

: 00:50:04

You know, like I needed that when I was

a kid um and so I think the hope in In

911

: 00:50:09

putting yourself through the hard parts

of sharing that is that you're gonna be

912

: 00:50:13

that for someone else who really needs it

913

: 00:50:15

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

914

: 00:50:16

Well, I talked to another musician

a couple months ago, and she, I was

915

: 00:50:20

asking her about, you know, because

she came from a band in Europe.

916

: 00:50:25

It was like the ACDC

917

: 00:50:26

of women rock in Europe is this crazy,

crazy band called Thunder Mother.

918

: 00:50:32

Of all things.

919

: 00:50:33

Uh, but now she's in Nashville.

920

: 00:50:35

She's Irish and she's in Nashville.

921

: 00:50:36

And I was asking her about like the

difference between playing like big,

922

: 00:50:40

you know, big shows in Europe versus

like the coffee shops, you know, or

923

: 00:50:44

hotel lobbies in and around Nashville.

924

: 00:50:46

And she's like, you know what?

925

: 00:50:47

Like, like to the point earlier,

it doesn't really matter.

926

: 00:50:50

But she's like, if I could just

reach one person, to talk about like

927

: 00:50:54

the, cause she was very passionate

about mental health, you know, and

928

: 00:50:57

like, uh, self care and all that.

929

: 00:50:59

And she's like, you know, it's, it's

always worth it to just hear from

930

: 00:51:01

one fan or talk to somebody after a

show that said, you know, that song

931

: 00:51:05

or your message or whatever that is,

you know, really, really touched me.

932

: 00:51:10

And she's like, that's, that's

kind of what I'm doing it now.

933

: 00:51:12

So like, you know, credit to you,

like, you know, good things will happen

934

: 00:51:16

based on the songs that you write,

you know, and the music that you make.

935

: 00:51:20

Um, But I hope that you can

reach as many people as you can.

936

: 00:51:23

Cause like, to your point, those examples,

people need authenticity, you know?

937

: 00:51:29

Mae Krell: Yeah.

938

: 00:51:29

People are looking for hope in

everything, I think, especially

939

: 00:51:33

like now, you know, the world is

very bleak sometimes, or it can be,

940

: 00:51:38

and there's so many cool things, you

know, like so many beautiful moments

941

: 00:51:45

that you can experience, but you have

to be not so blocked out to them,

942

: 00:51:49

and I think that a lot of times when

you are like really struggling with

943

: 00:51:52

any sort of mental health issues or.

944

: 00:51:54

Maybe something with your family,

or maybe you're going through

945

: 00:51:57

something really difficult.

946

: 00:51:58

There's kind of like a block that like

exists, like a line that you just, you see

947

: 00:52:02

everything like tinted in a different way.

948

: 00:52:05

And sometimes you just need

someone to help get you out of it.

949

: 00:52:08

I've needed it.

950

: 00:52:09

I've found it in music.

951

: 00:52:11

I still do so much of the time.

952

: 00:52:12

I'm such a like fan, you know, like

as, like of other musicians and um, You

953

: 00:52:19

know, like, we'll drive, like, hours to

a show because, you know, it's a solo

954

: 00:52:24

tour from a, like, an artist from a

band that I love, and it's like an 80

955

: 00:52:27

capacity room for someone who I've seen

play to 2, 000 people, and I'll drive,

956

: 00:52:30

like, two, three hours, you know, like,

I, I still am like that, um, just to

957

: 00:52:35

care so deeply about, about music that

makes you feel something, and I think

958

: 00:52:39

that that's, that's so special, and I

just hope to do that for someone else.

959

: 00:52:43

Jason English (Host): No, that's great.

960

: 00:52:44

All right.

961

: 00:52:45

So last question.

962

: 00:52:45

Uh, and I really appreciate your time.

963

: 00:52:47

Um, so that, you know, this, this, this

podcast is based on, you know, a show

964

: 00:52:52

that I, love that you need to watch called

965

: 00:52:54

Mae Krell: I I will watch it.

966

: 00:52:57

Jason English (Host): But, you

know, curiosity is a big part of it.

967

: 00:52:58

So, uh, it seems like you've experienced a

lot of things in your, in your young life.

968

: 00:53:04

Uh, but you, you've also, uh,

I don't know if you've seen

969

: 00:53:07

the world, uh, other than Utah,

970

: 00:53:10

just kidding.

971

: 00:53:11

Um, and you know, some

972

: 00:53:12

Mae Krell: a handful, yeah.

973

: 00:53:13

Jason English (Host): some spots here

and there, but what, what are you most

974

: 00:53:16

curious about at this stage in your life?

975

: 00:53:20

Mae Krell: That's a really good question.

976

: 00:53:22

I think other people and stories and, and

learning more about people's relationships

977

: 00:53:31

to the things that they care about, um,

the things that they don't care about.

978

: 00:53:36

Just what, what gets people going and

what keeps them running is something

979

: 00:53:41

that I'm always, um, Just learning more

about and wanting to learn more about.

980

: 00:53:46

And then I am big, big into

travel and seeing places.

981

: 00:53:49

I want to, um, check off my

last couple states in the U.

982

: 00:53:53

S.

983

: 00:53:54

And then I think I have four or five left.

984

: 00:53:57

And then I want to start

seeing other places as well.

985

: 00:54:00

So I'm just always curious about

people and their perspectives

986

: 00:54:04

and their experiences.

987

: 00:54:07

Jason English (Host): All right.

988

: 00:54:09

Well, have you been to Georgia?

989

: 00:54:10

You should come down to Georgia.

990

: 00:54:11

Mae Krell: I've been, very briefly,

I've been through Atlanta very, very

991

: 00:54:14

briefly, but I, Georgia is one of the

states that I feel like I've spent,

992

: 00:54:18

like, a very minimal amount of time in.

993

: 00:54:19

Like, I've been there, and I can be

like, I've been to Georgia, but I

994

: 00:54:24

wanna, like, actually make it down

to Georgia, like, properly, you know?

995

: 00:54:28

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

996

: 00:54:29

No, the venue that you need to

hit up is, uh, is, Eddie's Attic

997

: 00:54:32

Mae Krell: I've heard such good, it's

in, it's in Decatur, how do you pronounce

998

: 00:54:35

Jason English (Host): Decatur.

999

: 00:54:35

Mae Krell: I've heard really

good things about that venue.

: 1000

00:54:38,729 --> 00:54:39,949

Jason English (Host): I could

totally see you play that.

: 1001

00:54:40,619 --> 00:54:42,239

It's, it's, it's one

of the best ones here.

: 1002

00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,879

So, so speaking of playing,

uh, could you play a

: 1003

00:54:45,949 --> 00:54:46,549

song or two?

: 1004

00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:47,919

Mae Krell: Yeah, of course.

: 1005

00:54:48,329 --> 00:54:48,899

I'd love to.

: 1006

00:54:50,229 --> 00:54:50,509

Cool.

: 1007

00:54:50,869 --> 00:54:51,749

Yeah, I can

: 1008

00:54:53,799 --> 00:54:56,969

play, let me play, I'll play Grown, and

then I can play Apollo's Song, if that is

: 1009

00:54:57,129 --> 00:54:57,489

Jason English (Host): Okay.

: 1010

00:55:06,349 --> 00:55:11,314

Mae Krell: There's nothing I want

more than to be someone else.

: 1011

00:55:13,574 --> 00:55:14,754

My recurring wish.

: 1012

00:55:15,024 --> 00:55:17,674

Sean Birthday candles.

: 1013

00:55:21,324 --> 00:55:33,124

And the grass might not be greener, But

I'm sure it's easier to take care of.

: 1014

00:55:37,209 --> 00:55:43,329

There is nothing I fear more

than growing into my skin.

: 1015

00:55:44,849 --> 00:55:49,804

What if this is the best it gets?

: 1016

00:55:52,304 --> 00:56:02,734

And the flowers, they might not be taller,

but I'm sure they needed less to grow.

: 1017

00:56:07,944 --> 00:56:15,294

I'm still scared of the

dark, terrified of growing.

: 1018

00:56:20,689 --> 00:56:23,734

But I think I might be grown.

: 1019

00:56:27,169 --> 00:56:29,014

I'm still scared,

: 1020

00:56:32,194 --> 00:56:32,854

terrified.

: 1021

00:56:34,894 --> 00:56:42,654

I think I might be wrong

: 1022

00:56:45,724 --> 00:56:51,964

There's nothing I fear more

than learning I've found myself

: 1023

00:56:53,684 --> 00:56:56,374

And that this is all there is

: 1024

00:57:00,879 --> 00:57:09,909

My whole eternity searched for

meaning, I'm sure there must

: 1025

00:57:09,939 --> 00:57:14,736

be something more than this.

: 1026

00:57:14,736 --> 00:57:20,719

What if there's more than this?

: 1027

00:57:24,839 --> 00:57:28,859

I'm still scared of the.

: 1028

00:57:37,234 --> 00:57:40,374

But I think I might be grown.

: 1029

00:57:43,969 --> 00:57:45,619

I'm still scared,

: 1030

00:57:48,859 --> 00:57:49,459

terrified

: 1031

00:57:52,274 --> 00:57:52,494

to,

: 1032

00:57:56,454 --> 00:57:57,934

I think I might be.

: 1033

00:58:00,294 --> 00:58:02,054

I think I might be.

: 1034

00:58:07,844 --> 00:58:08,444

Jason English (Host): Thank you.

: 1035

00:58:10,489 --> 00:58:13,019

Mae Krell: Actually, I bought this guitar.

: 1036

00:58:14,034 --> 00:58:15,174

because of this song.

: 1037

00:58:15,564 --> 00:58:18,734

I was, I was out in LA

and I wrote this song.

: 1038

00:58:18,774 --> 00:58:22,084

I, well, I'd gone to like this

guitar shop, um, where this guy

: 1039

00:58:22,084 --> 00:58:24,044

like modifies like vintage guitars.

: 1040

00:58:24,434 --> 00:58:26,494

And I played this guitar and

I was like obsessed with it.

: 1041

00:58:26,494 --> 00:58:28,034

I was like, I cannot

buy a guitar right now.

: 1042

00:58:28,034 --> 00:58:30,364

I'm about to drive like

45 hours home to New York.

: 1043

00:58:30,364 --> 00:58:31,054

Like I can't do that.

: 1044

00:58:31,054 --> 00:58:31,814

I have no space in my car.

: 1045

00:58:31,814 --> 00:58:33,004

I've been living in it for three months.

: 1046

00:58:33,534 --> 00:58:37,814

And I went back to where I was staying and

ended up writing a Paula song that night.

: 1047

00:58:38,304 --> 00:58:40,454

And it was something named

something different at the time.

: 1048

00:58:40,564 --> 00:58:42,274

Um, and.

: 1049

00:58:42,609 --> 00:58:46,449

In my head it like was played on this

guitar like the way I remembered it

: 1050

00:58:46,449 --> 00:58:49,329

sounding and like I was playing it on

the Guitar that I had and I was like this

: 1051

00:58:49,329 --> 00:58:52,349

just doesn't sound right Like it doesn't

sound like that And I knew that when I

: 1052

00:58:52,349 --> 00:58:55,669

wanted to record it eventually that it

would have to be on this guitar And I

: 1053

00:58:55,669 --> 00:58:59,289

was like, well, I just I don't guess I

just have to go buy it So I told myself

: 1054

00:58:59,319 --> 00:59:04,184

that if the guitar store was gonna be was

open Before I left LA the next morning,

: 1055

00:59:04,184 --> 00:59:08,024

so I was about to drive the 48 hours

back to New York, that I would go buy it.

: 1056

00:59:08,084 --> 00:59:10,984

And then I checked their hours,

and for some reason on Fridays,

: 1057

00:59:10,984 --> 00:59:12,854

they opened at 9 and not at noon.

: 1058

00:59:12,884 --> 00:59:14,994

And I was like, I just gotta get it.

: 1059

00:59:15,034 --> 00:59:15,594

I just gotta do it.

: 1060

00:59:15,594 --> 00:59:18,644

So I just went and then I bought

this 100 year old guitar, um,

: 1061

00:59:18,654 --> 00:59:20,624

specifically because of Apollo's song.

: 1062

00:59:21,084 --> 00:59:23,854

So it's extra, extra

special for that reason.

: 1063

00:59:24,704 --> 00:59:25,054

Jason English (Host): That's awesome.

: 1064

00:59:42,329 --> 00:59:49,999

Mae Krell: Dogman to all of me is

starting to get old My best friend's

: 1065

00:59:49,999 --> 00:59:58,479

name will change soon, floral blueprints

On the floor, and I've thought a lot of

: 1066

00:59:58,519 --> 01:00:05,729

leaving the only city I've ever known.

: 1067

01:00:12,269 --> 01:00:12,459

They

: 1068

01:00:14,539 --> 01:00:22,744

clipped it's wings, but

somehow time's gone.

: 1069

01:00:22,744 --> 01:00:38,994

And I never saw myself walking down an

aisle Couldn't imagine what it'd look like

: 1070

01:00:39,954 --> 01:00:50,589

past twenty five Dreams were a luxury that

I couldn't afford Couldn't afford, and now

: 1071

01:00:53,059 --> 01:01:03,819

I'm living a future I never thought

I'd have The dog meant to outlive me

: 1072

01:01:03,819 --> 01:01:13,184

is Showing her white hair My little

brother's off to college, someone had

: 1073

01:01:13,194 --> 01:01:27,129

to please my parents, and I'm starting

to worry that I'll never adapt to this.

: 1074

01:01:27,129 --> 01:01:35,599

Thought I clipped it.

: 1075

01:01:35,679 --> 01:01:55,400

And I never saw myself walking down

an aisle Couldn't imagine what it'd

: 1076

01:01:55,400 --> 01:02:09,704

look like Past 25 dreams were a

luxury that I couldn't afford and now

: 1077

01:02:12,854 --> 01:02:21,944

I'm living a future I never

thought I'd have What do you

: 1078

01:02:21,994 --> 01:02:26,024

do with a life you didn't plan

: 1079

01:02:28,679 --> 01:02:33,129

Sucker punch straight

into your wildest dreams.

: 1080

01:02:33,129 --> 01:02:40,799

And worries to good things

don't come unpunished.

: 1081

01:02:43,009 --> 01:02:46,979

Think I might finally

stop praying for relief.

: 1082

01:02:49,804 --> 01:03:00,134

And I never saw myself walking down

an aisle But I'm starting to look

: 1083

01:03:00,454 --> 01:03:11,364

pretty damn close to twenty five Dreams

were a luxury that I couldn't afford

: 1084

01:03:25,729 --> 01:03:26,399

Jason English (Host): So beautiful.

: 1085

01:03:26,409 --> 01:03:27,038

Thank you, Mae

: 1086

01:03:27,159 --> 01:03:28,529

Mae Krell: you, thank you, for

: 1087

01:03:28,579 --> 01:03:29,669

Jason English (Host): That guitar sounds,

: 1088

01:03:29,749 --> 01:03:31,119

the guitar is perfect.

: 1089

01:03:31,179 --> 01:03:32,319

Mae Krell: It's cool, right?

: 1090

01:03:32,869 --> 01:03:36,019

It's it's it has a rubber bridge

on it, that's why it sounds weird.

: 1091

01:03:37,189 --> 01:03:38,669

like plucky and weird.

: 1092

01:03:38,909 --> 01:03:39,959

I'm so obsessed with it.

: 1093

01:03:40,159 --> 01:03:42,439

I feel like it writes, like

it writes songs itself.

: 1094

01:03:42,499 --> 01:03:44,659

Like anything you play on this

guitar just sounds better.

: 1095

01:03:45,629 --> 01:03:46,049

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

: 1096

01:03:47,949 --> 01:03:50,509

Uh, well, I really appreciate

your time and, you know, have a

: 1097

01:03:50,509 --> 01:03:55,538

great April, big April for you

and, uh, best to you in: 2024

: 1098

01:03:55,609 --> 01:03:56,169

Mae Krell: Thank you.

: 1099

01:03:56,199 --> 01:03:56,829

Thank you for your time.

: 1100

01:03:56,829 --> 01:03:57,579

I really appreciate it.

: 1101

01:04:05,169 --> 01:04:06,729

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

: 1102

01:04:06,729 --> 01:04:08,519

episode of Curious Goldfish.

: 1103

01:04:08,959 --> 01:04:12,239

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

: 1104

01:04:12,819 --> 01:04:15,439

Also tell your music loving

friends about us too.

: 1105

01:04:16,189 --> 01:04:18,288

Until next time, stay curious.