Episode 28

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Published on:

8th Jul 2024

A Chat with Jack O'Neill: He's a Songwriter, After All

Jack O'Neill: Sobriety, Songwriting, and the Journey of Jackopierce

In this episode of 'Curious Goldfish,' host Jason English interviews Jack O'Neill of the iconic acoustic rock duo Jackopierce. Jack talks about his personal journey to sobriety, his military upbringing, and his 35-year friendship with Cary Pierce, whom he met at SMU. He opens up about quitting his day job to fully embrace his identity as a songwriter and artist. Jack discusses the songwriting process for new singles like 'Airport Bars and Air Guitars,' 'Damn Good Son,' and 'Weight of the World,' and shares the challenges faced in the music industry. His conversation includes the dynamics of his partnership with Cary, memorable recording experiences with T Bone Burnett, and the importance of curiosity in life. Jack also reflects on his acting career and the improvisational nature of performances. The episode ends with an acoustic performance, embodying the essence of his musical journey and lifelong friendship.

00:00 A Life-Changing Decision

01:06 Welcome to Curious Goldfish

01:48 The Story of Jack O'Neill

02:33 Jackopierce: The Dynamic Duo

03:47 Jack's Solo Journey

04:55 A Personal Connection

06:01 Interview with Jack O'Neill

06:22 Life in New York City

08:16 The Music Industry Today

11:09 Creating New Music

15:49 The Impact of Streaming

24:17 The Art of Songwriting

25:22 Diving into the Lyrics

40:47 A Military Family's Influence

48:47 Introducing Gina: The Creative Process

49:00 Live Show Reflections and Inspirations

49:54 The Algorithm of Creativity

51:55 Weight of the World: Song Insights

53:11 Turning Scenes into Songs

56:08 Exploring Relationships and Life Lessons

01:03:02 Curious Goldfish: Podcast Insights

01:11:28 The Journey of Jackopierce

01:19:38 The Mexican Tune: Origins and Evolution

01:25:31 Concluding Thoughts and Performances

Transcript
Speaker:

Jack O'Neill: So I resigned from my job

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and quit

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drinking.

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And basically

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except for

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one little moment, have never looked back.

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And It was during that period where I,

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for the first time in my life,

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uh,

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and thanks to a good

friend of mine who was

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was helping me get sober, that I was like,

you know what, I'm a I'm a songwriter.

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That's what I, that's really what I am.

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I'm just going to

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admit, I'm an artist,

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and this is what I do.

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And, I can try to pretend like

that's not a thing in my life, but

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the reality is it's

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totally a thing in my life.

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And kind

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of once I gave that up, I gave

up drinking, I gave up this

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idea of

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of having some kind of normal

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nine to five life, and was like, I,

I'm going to sit down and write songs,

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whether I want to or not, I might as well.

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embrace

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it and enjoy it.

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And, and, um, honestly, now

I can't stop writing songs.

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

curious goldfish, a podcast community

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where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

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with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find curious goldfish and all the

major podcast and social media platforms.

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And of course, we have all of

our content on our website.

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Curious goldfish.

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com.

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Welcome into the mind of Mr.

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John Bernard O'Neill III.

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Okay,

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we will do this for anybody who's

spent, uh, Tuesday evenings at

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Mimi's in Greenville, Lebanon.

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This is so many years ago.

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Picture this deep dust in wild grass,

scorched now by the sun of July.

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The strong song current of the

little bighorn river running slow.

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Winding quietly through the valley

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Jason English (Host): Jack O'Neill,

the first half of the Acoustic Rock

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Band, Jack O'Pierce, alongside music

partner Carrie Pierce, has always been

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the mysterious darker of the duo, who

I've listened to for more than 30 years.

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Cary Pierce always seemed to be the

front man, often more expressive

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in his demeanor and body language,

as the two crisscrossed the country

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for the better part of four decades.

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That clip that just played is from

a song called Mexican Tune from

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the album Live From The Americas.

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Jack is the one narrating a story about

General George Custer at Little Bighorn,

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completely off the cuff and in real time.

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A terrific example of improvisational

creativity that became a staple of

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their live shows over the course

of Jack O'Pierce's early years.

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In this episode, Jack and I talk about

a bunch of topics, many of which I've

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wanted to ask him for so, so long.

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So yes, I ask him about the origins

of Mexican tune, along with some other

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tidbits about his 35 year partnership

with Cary, including whether they

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share a friendship and relationship

similar to Ted Lasso and Coach Beard.

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From the TV show, Ted Lasso.

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It's part of the conversation

that I think the most fanatical

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Jackopierce fans will surely enjoy.

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But this episode is mostly about

Jack and why he's deciding to put

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together a full solo album in the

near future called North star.

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He's already started to release

some songs that will be included.

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And we dig into a few of

those in interesting detail.

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Jack has had an incredibly

unique life and career.

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And the songs he's pinned reflect many

different aspects of being the son of a

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military man and being a musician and part

time actor who landed in New York City.

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Once upon a time, the songs also

reflect struggle and triumph over

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alcoholism and questions that many

artists ask themselves about whether the

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struggle and hardship is all worth it.

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Good news for us.

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Jack has concluded it is worth it and

he's focused on what he's destined to be.

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Which is an artist and a songwriter.

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But if you follow Jackopierce

for as long as I have, you

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knew that was always the case.

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Jack penned one of my favorite

songs when he and Cary were

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studying at SMU in the late 1980s.

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It's called My Time and it has the

sentiment and wisdom of a man three

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times the age of a college student.

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And it's helped me get through some

of my most difficult periods in life.

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Three years ago, in the midst of a

divorce following a 25 year marriage to

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the person who actually introduced me to

Jaco Pierce, I found myself on Interstate

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70 in the middle of Kansas, headed

east to Atlanta from Boulder, Colorado,

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contemplating the next chapter of my life.

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And during that drive, which was mixed

with gratefulness, anger, frustration,

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and sadness, I started to ponder the

future, not knowing what life would be

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like with kids out of the house, and a

long relationship in the rearview mirror.

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Jack reminded me in that song that

quote, dreams come clean over miles

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of road and that my future would

start to clarify itself with every

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passing billboard and rest stop.

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I'm grateful to speak with Jack on

this episode, and I'm especially

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grateful that he sings my time nearly

four decades after he wrote it.

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With his relationship with Cary as

strong as ever, and a new outlook on

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life that's not clouded by the damaging

effects of drinking, You can say that

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today, in 2024, it is Jack's time.

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From New York City, here's Jack O'Neill.

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Let's dive in.

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Jack O'Neill.

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Thank you so much for joining.

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How are you?

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Jack O'Neill: I'm great, man.

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Thanks for having me.

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It's a real pleasure.

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Jason English (Host): All right.

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Well, uh, you're, are you dialing in

from your house in, uh, in New York?

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Is that right?

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Jack O'Neill: Yeah, I'm

in, I'm in my studio

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in New York City, also

known as my kids room.

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Uh, I

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kinda, I kinda co opted it,

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but, um, yep.

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I'm in New York City.

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We're having a perfect

New York City afternoon

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and, um,

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summertime.

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Um,

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Summertime.

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So we're Right around the 4th of July

when we're recording this in:

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I guess So there's a lot of things

that we're gonna get to hopefully

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in the conversation First off.

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I just want to say I don't want

to come across as too much as a

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fanboy, but This conversation is one.

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I've wanted to have for literally 30

years And I and I say that with all

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Authenticity and like genuineness and

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Jack O'Neill: I appreciate

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that.

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Jason English (Host): everybody

that listens to music, right.

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They, if they can make a soundtrack

of their life, you know, there's

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certain songs or certain artists

that would be part of that.

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And Jack O'Neill, which is half of

Jack O'Pierce, a longtime duo band, you

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know, uh, from way back when, uh, you

guys would be side A of my soundtrack.

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So, or on

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Jack O'Neill: That's amazing.

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Jason English (Host): So I just,

I just thank you for your time

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and just thank you for your music.

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Jack O'Neill: Well,

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thank you very

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much.

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That was very

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kind and warm.

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Jason English (Host): I

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Jack O'Neill: Um, you know, you

spend a lot of I spent, what's that?

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Jason English (Host): No,

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Jack O'Neill: No, no.

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I mean, I spend a lot of time in

this room writing songs, you know.

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And there are definitely

days where you're like, Why?

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Why am I beating my

head against this wall?

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And, uh,

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you know, somebody

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Really

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appreciates it, you know.

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it's a, It's good to know.

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It feels good.

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So thank you for that.

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Jason English (Host): No, you're welcome.

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And you

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Jack O'Neill: for inviting me on too.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah,

no, it's it's it's my pleasure.

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And you know, I I'm no I know I'm not

the only one that would want to tell

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you that so I Think I'm probably saying

that on behalf of a lot of people

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that again are probably late 40s early

mid 50s at this point So anyway, so I

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wanted to lead with that and then yeah,

we have a lot to get to including You

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know the Jack O'Pears stuff and I in

but I want to focus on your um The solo

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album that you're working on or have

worked on and are slowly releasing.

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But like this summer, it seems like

you and Cary, again, Cary Pierce of

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Jacko Pierce, you guys are traveling

and touring just as much as ever.

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Um, I think you did a few shows

late spring and I think have more

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planned, I guess it feels like

the last couple of years you guys

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have been on the road quite a bit.

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Is that, well that you think that'll

continue for the foreseeable future?

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Yeah,

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Jack O'Neill: the busiest

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spring we've had in a long time.

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I mean, obviously, COVID

kind of threw everything

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out of kilter, but,

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you know, we both, we're both dads.

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Our kids are getting older and

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we don't feel the need

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to be around as much,

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Um, so we're,

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we're definitely taking advantage of,

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of,

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of

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getting

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back out on the road a little bit more.

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Uh, this summer.

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is not

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crazy, but we're going to Montana in July.

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We're going to actually play

with Toad the Wet Sprocket.

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In uh, Kalispell

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and Great Falls.

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And that's going to be,

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that's going to

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be awesome.

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You know, we know,

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we kind of

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know those guys.

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We've known some, you know, we've

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played with Glenn before.

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We've played

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with Toad before.

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It's been a long time, but um,

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you know,

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it's, Montana is one of the,

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one of the states I've never been to, so.

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you know, There's always a little

bit of that where you're like.

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Oh,

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let's get

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out and

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see

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somewhere we've never seen and

play a couple of shows and you

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Just kind of awesome.

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So we'll do that and then I know in august

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we

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are going

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man, I

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think we're going out to like spokane

washington for the first time really cool

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uh,

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venue out there

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I'd have to

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look at the calendar, but but yeah,

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the point is that

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We seem to be busier I mean,

this first half of this year, I

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think, is the busiest first half

we've had in a really long time.

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Jason English (Host): this year,

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Jack O'Neill: it going.

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Jason English (Host): think,

is the busiest first half

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we've had in a really long

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Jack O'Neill: Oh, yeah,

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Jason English (Host):

So, we'll keep it going.

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Well,

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Jack O'Neill: Well,

apparently you are too.

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Sweet water to Atlanta.

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That's a long way.

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Jason English (Host): it just worked out.

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It worked out with my work and,

and, and, and those things.

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So, um, awesome.

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So yeah.

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So part of your year obviously

is the new solo album.

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You did some solo work probably, I don't

know how long ago, 15, 18 years ago.

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I think you, didn't you

release some solo songs a

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while

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Jack O'Neill: Yeah, so I, I, Man, I,

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did a solo record.

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It's 20 years.

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is it long?

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Yeah.

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And I recorded it in New

York with Doug Derryberry,

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who's a great

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guitarist.

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uh,

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instrumentalist, producer, engineer.

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Uh,

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he's

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an

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amazing dude, an old

friend, killer resume.

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And I recorded that in New York,

but I recorded that back when, you

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know, you produced a physical CD.

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You know, it was kind of, I think,

you know, Napster was kind of a thing.

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but

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streaming wasn't on the map yet.

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And

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so, you know, back then you'd

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you'd make a record,

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create

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physical copies, sell it on the road.

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You know,

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we'd sell them at Jackopierce shows.

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We'd sell Jackopierce

CDs, Cary Pierce solo CDs,

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my

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solo CD.

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And

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then, you know, over the years

it kind of just, it went away.

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You know, like I kind of

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stopped

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thinking about it.

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I got pretty involved with

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my

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day to day life in New York City.

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And,

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um,

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and it was

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really sometime during COVID I

started doing a lot of stage it.

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from my apartment,

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uh, which is that,

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you know, an

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online platform people can watch you

play basically from your living room.

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And I started playing a

lot of those old songs,

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and I

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thought, I should

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find out how that record got

on all the streaming platforms.

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Cause I really don't know.

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know.

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I I had no idea.

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idea.

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So I literally went to Spotify

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and was like,

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You know got a message claim

your artist page, you know

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for

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jack o'neill and i'm thinking well,

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I mean it's been up there for

I don't know eight 10 years.

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and I haven't even claimed the page.

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I felt I felt pretty pathetic about it.

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So

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I

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decided to go in the studio

and rerecord that album.

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And

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as I started to move forward on that

process, I thought that's actually

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I don't need to do that at all

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Could

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just re release the songs as is

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But I did re record a couple of

them, Um, which then turned into

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this

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batch of solo songs that

I've been releasing in:

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Jason English (Host): the album

is yet to really kind of fully be

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released, but it's called North star.

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Is that right?

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Yeah.

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Jack O'Neill: I haven't

finished that song, North Star.

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There's a couple songs unfinished.

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And, And, you know, I was just

kind of thinking, you know, like,

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know, like,

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streaming is such a different ballgame

from, from when Cary and I first started.

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And it's

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kind of a different approach, so

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I just thought, you know,

I'll just crack singles.

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you know,

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throw,

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throw a song out there

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with

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some kind of consistency

and see what happens.

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I mean

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I've been writing a lot

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and it's just

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really so much more accessible to

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to

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to

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To release music,

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you know through the

streaming platforms, So

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I haven't really finished the album.

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I kind of was like i'll start releasing

these singles and i'll see what happens

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So i'm always kind of doing that.

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Like, let's just see what happens

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happens

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Now, my,

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my

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idea is that when I

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finish that final song

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song

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Maybe i'll compile it into

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an album, But the truth

is, I don't think anybody's

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anybody's finding a Pining

away for an album for me.

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You know what I mean?

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Like, you know what I mean?

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Like

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Jason English (Host):

Well, I, no, just kidding.

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Yeah, no, I know what you mean.

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So

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are those, are the, so the songs that

you're releasing or will continue

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to release, are any of them, is

it a mix of like new songs, new

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songs in like rerecorded versions

of the, of the one 20 years ago, So

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Jack O'Neill: From the

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album from 20

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years ago

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and the rest of them are all new, like

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written within the year or two

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two.

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So,

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You know, there's a

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lot going on there.

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You know, for years, I just really

didn't, I wasn't writing a lot.

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I was writing

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very, very little.

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and

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the

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truth is,

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I

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you know, I got sober

about five and a half,

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six years ago.

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and Kind of the game

changed for me personally.

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and now, now I'm writing a lot more,

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more.

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And, And, I feel really good about it.

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Versus whatever it was before that.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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No, that's great.

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You mentioned, like,

streaming's changed everything.

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I heard the money's really good

right now, uh, for streaming.

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Jack O'Neill: it's amazing.

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I mean,

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If you want to make a lot of money,

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get into the

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music.

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business.

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Jason English (Host): Literally,

like right before we started this,

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I was scrolling through, you know,

my Instagram feed or whatever.

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And the, and an artist, another artist was

like, Hey, we had a great show last night.

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You know, I sold 500 of merch and

just a reminder, what does that trad

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translate to streams on Spotify?

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And he, he, he did the calculation.

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It's like three and a half

million streams is basically.

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You know, 12 shirts or however

many shirts he sold last night.

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So he's like, please

continue to buy the shirts.

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Cause the streaming thing is,

it's, it's too much to overcome.

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It's crazy.

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It's crazy how the math works.

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I don't understand it.

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Jack O'Neill: yeah, the

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math,

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the math is terrible

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in

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terms of, you know, how much

artists get paid for stream.

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And,

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paid per

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stream.

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you can, it's,

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it's terrible.

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Uh,

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you know, I try to look at the

positive side of it, which is.

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As an

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independent artist,

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you know, it is a

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great way to try to find people

who might like your music.

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You know

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I don't know how, there's

like, I don't know,

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400 million

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Spotify

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users.

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I'm like, look, if I can't find

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15 of those people that might

like this music, maybe, maybe

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I shouldn't be making music.

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But, um, yeah, the, the

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numbers, Spotify are

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terrible.

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And, You know, I think I just saw

that the Spotify CEO, was it the spot?

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:

I don't want to make up stuff.

443

:

Spotify CEO said something like,

uh, Cost zero to create content.

444

:

to

445

:

create

446

:

You know, it's

447

:

like, that's

448

:

it's a terrible way to look

at what we're all doing here.

449

:

I mean, We're all content creators

in your eyes, which is whatever.

450

:

Um, but I mean, it's,

451

:

you know, literally

blood, sweat, and tears.

452

:

Self financing everything.

453

:

I mean, an independent artist now.

454

:

is a,

455

:

a, you

456

:

a CEO, chief marketing officer,

social media guru, uh, you know,

457

:

you

458

:

you wear a million different hats.

459

:

Uh, The idea that

460

:

it's

461

:

easy to create a song and put

it on the platform might be true

462

:

from a technical aspect, but,

463

:

you know, all the work that goes in into,

you know, creating, being an artist.

464

:

Jason English (Host): Um, well, so for the

465

:

fans of yours, and then, you

know, obviously Jackopierce.

466

:

You know, I hate to like dumb this

down, but it's the best way to

467

:

support you guys, obviously going

to shows and buying merchandise.

468

:

Like, is that, is that the best way

to, you know, for those of you, for

469

:

those of us that are going to watch

this, hopefully that love you all.

470

:

We want to support you and keep you going.

471

:

Is that, does it just come down

to like, it's easy as that?

472

:

Or are there other things

that we could, we could be

473

:

doing?

474

:

Jack O'Neill: I mean, it's, it is,

yeah, it is certainly the best,

475

:

the best way

476

:

to support bands is if, if they're out

touring to, to go out and see them.

477

:

live for sure.

478

:

Um, You know, I think about young

479

:

artists that are starting now and

480

:

you know, maybe

481

:

they're, they're

482

:

doing amazing

483

:

things Tik Tok.

484

:

or

485

:

Instagram or even streaming, but

486

:

the

487

:

challenge is, you know, still

getting humans in the room.

488

:

You know, when they go,

you know, go on the road.

489

:

So I, I don't know.

490

:

it, It's kind of a heartbreaker because

a lot of young artists, I think.

491

:

You know, they go on the road, which is

492

:

kind of the dream of most musicians.

493

:

to be on the

494

:

road And play live and they get out there

and, you know, it's a barely a break even.

495

:

a

496

:

break

497

:

or even a, it's a loss.

498

:

Jason English (Host): my perspective

as a listener, it's awesome because

499

:

you, it's just there, it's accessible.

500

:

Spotify and others are great to, to

like, okay, if I like Jack O'Neill,

501

:

you know, who else can I like?

502

:

And they'll tee those up.

503

:

And so I would come

across bands and stuff.

504

:

Obviously I would never have

learned about without that.

505

:

Um,

506

:

but I just think the math, the math,

on your side is, I don't know, it

507

:

doesn't, it doesn't respect, like you

said, one, the, just the art form,

508

:

the talent, the time and all that.

509

:

So, um, so yeah, it's just,

it's really interesting.

510

:

Jack O'Neill: I just try to look at

it like, well, where else can you

511

:

have the

512

:

potential to reach this many people

that you would not reach, you know?

513

:

But it makes, you know,

514

:

there are definitely days where

you question the whole thing.

515

:

Just like,

516

:

why am I You know, why

517

:

am I

518

:

why am I doing this?

519

:

You know, this

520

:

is really, really difficult,

521

:

uh,

522

:

to go it alone.

523

:

And, You know?

524

:

The truth is,

525

:

you know,

526

:

back,

527

:

back in the

528

:

day, Cary and I made a cassette tape.

529

:

That was our first,

530

:

you know,

531

:

recorded product And that got

passed around by word of mouth.

532

:

And

533

:

you know, somebody in

Michigan would be like, Hey.

534

:

I've got This cassette of you guys

Will you come up to Michigan and play.

535

:

Michigan and

536

:

play.

537

:

Um, so, you know, that's kind of how

things went viral back in the day.

538

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah,

539

:

Jack O'Neill: was somebody

Burning, burning cassette tapes.

540

:

the streaming thing just kind of

satisfies a huge distribution issue.

541

:

So,

542

:

like when

543

:

we first made our first CD

544

:

in the

545

:

early nineties,

546

:

the

547

:

uh, the first

548

:

reaction from a lot of people

was like, you can do that?

549

:

You know, you can go out you

don't have a record label, you

550

:

can go out and make your own CD?

551

:

Oh, no

552

:

shit.

553

:

You know,

554

:

there were those kinds of gatekeepers.

555

:

But then after you make

a CD, you still need.

556

:

put it in

557

:

stores, and get people in the stores.

558

:

And

559

:

so now that this whole

creating a physical copy

560

:

and getting that distribution is

561

:

kind of solved by streaming.

562

:

You know, you

563

:

can make something on your laptop

and load it up and, you know, use

564

:

whatever distribution service and,

and, and your, your songs out there.

565

:

Uh, and

566

:

then

567

:

the really

568

:

hard work begins.

569

:

Jason English (Host): in terms of.

570

:

is

571

:

Jack O'Neill: of, you know, just the ease

with which you can get stuff kind of into

572

:

the world, but it doesn't make it any

easier for for people to to, to find it.

573

:

I mean, now there's

574

:

it.

575

:

I now there's

576

:

it's really difficult to keep up.

577

:

with everything, Whether it's

you know, streaming television.

578

:

Jason English (Host): television,

579

:

streaming

580

:

Jack O'Neill: music, you know,

581

:

know,

582

:

it's

583

:

just, it's hard to keep up.

584

:

So

585

:

Jason English (Host): up.

586

:

Since a little bit, this is with

my little podcast that I do.

587

:

But for me, if someone listens to this

show, like two minutes or 30 minutes,

588

:

and if someone listens to your song

for a minute or three and a half

589

:

minutes, that's actually a big deal.

590

:

Just given all the options that we have.

591

:

Right.

592

:

So, you know, it's all perspective.

593

:

I mean, that's a, you know, for,

to have someone listen to a song.

594

:

For that, like in the car or like

when they're exercising and then

595

:

like in their car listening to a

show like this for us to capture

596

:

their attention for however long.

597

:

It's like, okay, that's actually a big

deal because there's so many options for

598

:

people to like spend their time on, right?

599

:

Jack O'Neill: yeah, there,

600

:

Yeah.

601

:

it's true.

602

:

The, It's a battle

603

:

for attention.

604

:

It's a battle to get.

605

:

You

606

:

you know, how do you break through all of

607

:

all of that.

608

:

Yeah.

609

:

Yeah.

610

:

I don't want to say

611

:

noise, but

612

:

you

613

:

know, how do you break through all that

competition and I've heard very Well,

614

:

known established musicians talk about

How impossible it is to break through

615

:

and you're like, well, you're, you got

a huge name and you feel the same, You

616

:

know, you feel the same, same stress,

you know, and I think also part of it

617

:

is, you know, we're, we're, we're making

618

:

music, we're putting music in the world

and maybe it has visuals with it, but our,

619

:

you know,

620

:

that attention span,

621

:

you know, our music is competing.

622

:

not with just other music, it's competing

with everything, you know, like you

623

:

know, TikTok runs the gamut in terms of,

624

:

you know, what kind of, what kind of,

I hate to say content, but the content

625

:

that people are looking at, it's not

like everybody's putting out music,

626

:

you

627

:

You know, you're going up against

just silly stuff, I, it's,

628

:

it's, no

629

:

no rhyme or reason.

630

:

So

631

:

so.

632

:

No, it's, yeah, it's

633

:

I don't know.

634

:

They're, uh, yeah.

635

:

Jason English (Host): All right,

well, let's get back to the good

636

:

stuff, which is the art, right?

637

:

Um, and the, yeah, the

638

:

good stuff that you're, you're doing.

639

:

So, so far you've, uh,

released, I think, four or five

640

:

singles since February, right?

641

:

And actually today is the latest one,

just ironically here in late June.

642

:

That one's called Airport

Bars and Air Guitars, right?

643

:

Um, and, but yeah, you've, you've, uh,

644

:

Jack O'Neill: yeah, yeah,

645

:

Jason English (Host): that was your

continuation of, uh, living on a

646

:

prayer, I think from Jon Bon Jovi's.

647

:

Is that right?

648

:

Or your

649

:

Jack O'Neill: yeah, Yeah

panic in the cul de sac

650

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah

651

:

Pat, uh

652

:

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

653

:

Jason English (Host): Uh, and then the

first one was Weight of the World, right?

654

:

So I think

655

:

Uh, and then there's a couple other

ones that we can talk about but

656

:

I guess could we just Hit each of

those at a high level Uh, just in

657

:

terms

658

:

of kind of understanding You Your mind

space, the context, and uh, and then

659

:

I've got the lyrics that, you know, I

might read a few lines because, uh, you

660

:

know, obviously a lot of it stuck out,

uh, when I was listening, but also when

661

:

I actually read the words on the paper.

662

:

So, um, yeah, if we can get

663

:

into it,

664

:

Jack O'Neill: Oh

665

:

Jason English (Host): I guess let's

start with the one, the most recent

666

:

one, uh, airport bars and air guitar.

667

:

So I

668

:

would

669

:

Jack O'Neill: Airport.

670

:

Jason English (Host): the time

in your life that inspired this

671

:

Jack O'Neill: So airport

bars and air guitars

672

:

Was definitely, uh, this is

673

:

at the very tail end

of my drinking career.

674

:

So, um,

675

:

I got, you know, I, I got pretty

676

:

reliant on

677

:

alcohol,

678

:

um, until I

679

:

quit drinking.

680

:

And when I quit drinking,

it was actually a really

681

:

huge challenge.

682

:

It was a

683

:

really difficult thing to do.

684

:

But,

685

:

you know, I

686

:

got to a point

687

:

in the, the mid

688

:

2010s.

689

:

Where I was just like, I, you know, I

was working a day job in New York City.

690

:

Uh, I was playing music on, you know,

691

:

a

692

:

weekend or two a month

693

:

with

694

:

Jackopierce, But I would bounce

from like this day job world

695

:

to the

696

:

road,

697

:

back to the day job world.

698

:

And the deeper I got into this day job,

699

:

the more demanding it became, you know?

700

:

like,

701

:

it Was almost like I.

702

:

Jason English (Host):

sales for like a magazine?

703

:

Is that what I

704

:

remember?

705

:

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, well,

706

:

I started in magazines.

707

:

Yeah,

708

:

I mean, it's, it's a

long, Convoluted story.

709

:

I started, uh, I was,

710

:

I started as a temp.

711

:

Back in the day I was an

actor in New York City.

712

:

Somebody was like, Hey,

you want to come temp?

713

:

I was like, I don't even

know what that means.

714

:

but sure.

715

:

And I

716

:

swear it ended up.

717

:

15 years later, I'm like,

718

:

what am I doing?

719

:

Um,

720

:

so I'd be on the road and

721

:

drinking way too much.

722

:

And if there was a robe in the hotel room,

723

:

I would

724

:

always

725

:

put on the robe and

726

:

crush the

727

:

minibar.

728

:

And You know, it was a

very unhealthy existence.

729

:

And I just kind of had this

730

:

thought one time I was like,

what if I called room service and

731

:

just ask for

732

:

a pistol?

733

:

Jason English (Host): Oh,

734

:

Jack O'Neill: Yeah.

735

:

like I've, I've, I've done with

736

:

this.

737

:

It's a

738

:

pretty dark.

739

:

subject matter, but it's tongue in cheek.

740

:

It's tongue in cheek.

741

:

I don't know.

742

:

Probably

743

:

shouldn't share this.

744

:

It's it's pretty dark actually, but um,

745

:

Jason English (Host): No, this

is this is this is it right?

746

:

This is what it's about

747

:

Jack O'Neill: but it

748

:

was you know, it was you

know, I was that miserable.

749

:

I was at a point where I

was like, man, i'm just

750

:

I can't, I don't know what I don't

know what I can't do anymore, but I

751

:

whatever i'm doing I can't do anymore

752

:

And I don't know

753

:

if it's trying to be a

754

:

musician when I, I don't write anything.

755

:

Uh,

756

:

or

757

:

being

758

:

a, a guy with a day job who

feels like he's totally faking

759

:

that whole thing.

760

:

And,

761

:

it led me to was finally going

like, I'm going to quit drinking.

762

:

And actually I quit my job

763

:

and quit drinking.

764

:

So I resigned from my job

765

:

and quit

766

:

drinking.

767

:

And basically

768

:

except for

769

:

one little moment, have never looked back.

770

:

And

771

:

Jason English (Host): Oh, good

772

:

Jack O'Neill: And It was

during that period where I,

773

:

for the first time in my life,

774

:

uh,

775

:

and thanks to a good

friend of mine who was

776

:

was helping me get sober, that I was like,

you know what, I'm a I'm a songwriter.

777

:

That's what I, that's really what I am.

778

:

Not,

779

:

you know,

780

:

it

781

:

know, it took that, it took that

782

:

experience for me to like,

783

:

not have a revelation or

anything like that, but

784

:

to get to a point in my life where

I was like, uh, I'm just going to

785

:

admit, I'm an artist,

786

:

and this is what I do.

787

:

And, I can try to pretend like

that's not a thing in my life, but

788

:

the reality is it's

789

:

totally a thing in my life.

790

:

And kind

791

:

of once I gave that up, I gave

up drinking, I gave up this

792

:

idea of

793

:

of having some kind of normal

794

:

nine to five life, and was like, I,

I'm going to sit down and write songs,

795

:

whether I want to or not, I might as well.

796

:

embrace

797

:

it and enjoy it.

798

:

And, and, um, honestly, now

I can't stop writing songs.

799

:

Jason English (Host): Oh, that's

800

:

Jack O'Neill: So it's a really

weird place to be kind of this late

801

:

in my life,

802

:

but you know, never better

late than never, I guess.

803

:

So,

804

:

Jason English (Host): with

songwriter rather than actor.

805

:

Jack O'Neill: yeah,

806

:

Jason English (Host):

You know, like that's

807

:

interesting

808

:

Jack O'Neill: well, you know,

809

:

Jason English (Host): you know, yeah.

810

:

Jack O'Neill: well,

811

:

it's

812

:

kind of, you know, I, I,

813

:

I

814

:

spend more time writing songs

815

:

than I do acting.

816

:

And that's because I can

totally control writing songs.

817

:

you know, uh,

818

:

Controlling

819

:

acting gigs a little tougher.

820

:

But,

821

:

even the acting thing is something

I came back to in that period after

822

:

I quit

823

:

drinking.

824

:

And

825

:

even that wasn't really a

conscious decision, man.

826

:

It, it, It's crazy how the universe speaks

827

:

to you.

828

:

It was just kind of one day, it was like a

829

:

slow moving

830

:

realization where I'm like,

831

:

oh,

832

:

when I first moved to New York,

833

:

you know, I was

834

:

involved with

835

:

the Flea Theater downtown.

836

:

I was in the downtown theater scene.

837

:

and.

838

:

I slowly just pulled myself out of that.

839

:

I slowly pulled myself

out of being a musician

840

:

to try to satisfy this other idea I had

of what I should be doing with my life.

841

:

And here I am back where I started

20 years ago, almost, you know,

842

:

like kind of crazy now that I

843

:

talk about it out loud.

844

:

Um,

845

:

Jason English (Host): Are

846

:

you,

847

:

Jack O'Neill: I was always much,

848

:

Jason English (Host): sorry, do you think

like today, uh, are you, are you happy?

849

:

And are you, is this

like, are you content?

850

:

Are you, you know, like what you're

doing, is this what you should be doing?

851

:

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, I, I've never,

I've never felt this level of like

852

:

um, Comfort with

853

:

my place in the world.

854

:

You know, you know what I mean?

855

:

Like, um,

856

:

I, Yes, very happy, very content.

857

:

You know, kind of like uh, you know, it's,

858

:

it takes a lot of stress off.

859

:

in the

860

:

sense that,

861

:

you know, I feel

862

:

like when I was younger it

was like, man, I need to, uh,

863

:

something big needs to happen

864

:

so I can be happy.

865

:

Or something big needs to happen

so I can have money to be happy.

866

:

or, you know,

867

:

shit like that.

868

:

And now it's like, man,

my life is fantastic.

869

:

As it is

870

:

right now in this moment.

871

:

Like,

872

:

I could not ask for more,

873

:

So

874

:

why not write a song about

airport bars and air guitars?

875

:

Who's, you know, you

know what I mean, Like,

876

:

um,

877

:

Jason English (Host): yeah, no,

here's, here's what I think.

878

:

I mean, my point of view on that.

879

:

And so like, just real quick,

well, if you, do you mind if I

880

:

read a couple of these lines just,

881

:

you know, for

882

:

Jack O'Neill: yeah, sure.

883

:

Jason English (Host): uh, so

I, you know, I called room

884

:

service, requested a revolver.

885

:

It paused from reception, then laughter.

886

:

Alone in a hotel robe, I cradled the

phone and wondered if I got it wrong.

887

:

Uh, you know, it goes on about,

you know, shaving cream and

888

:

razors and the typical things you

might call reception for, right?

889

:

Um,

890

:

uh, and then it's like airport

bars and air guitars, last call

891

:

ringing out in power cords,

losing my way, losing the war.

892

:

Don't ask me how I'm getting home.

893

:

Um, but I think like, The fact that you

wrote that today, when you are, you know,

894

:

or recently when you're like the happiest

moment, I mean, those feelings must still

895

:

be so real that they're still accessible.

896

:

Right.

897

:

And I think what's cool about it is,

uh, there's probably others, whether

898

:

there's listeners or other artists that

might be asking those same questions.

899

:

You know, how do I get home right now?

900

:

And the fact that you're kind

of on the other side, I think

901

:

is, you know, speaks a lot.

902

:

Probably will give people

some, uh, some inspiration.

903

:

So I think that's great.

904

:

Jack O'Neill: Well,

905

:

I, man,

906

:

that that's

907

:

such an insightful question.

908

:

Um,

909

:

that's a great

910

:

point because

911

:

it's like when the song was

realized, I had already kind of

912

:

kind of made it through.

913

:

that period When I first came up with

914

:

the idea of

915

:

air airport bars and air guitars, I

was in an airport bar in Nashville.

916

:

and

917

:

some guy was playing, you

know how they have guys,

918

:

um, And I use anyway.

919

:

There are people performing

in the corner and I was like,

920

:

airport bars and air guitars.

921

:

And of course I was getting hammered.

922

:

Um,

923

:

But

924

:

when I was, and I still do, I still write,

925

:

like,

926

:

I don't want to call it journaling,

927

:

I don't know what you call it, but

928

:

I

929

:

always was, found comfort in words.

930

:

Whether it was reading something,

931

:

listening to

932

:

some, something with good

933

:

meaning.

934

:

Words

935

:

that spoke to me, or writing my own words.

936

:

I always found it

937

:

It was a comfortable place to be like

938

:

Jason English (Host): Like,

939

:

Jack O'Neill: I could say that

kind of stuff, like, I called

940

:

reception requested a revolver,

941

:

and they laughed at me,

942

:

and it kind of

943

:

feels good to put it on paper

because it's ridiculous.

944

:

Um, and not something I think I

would ever do, obviously, but um,

945

:

when

946

:

I say, you know, I've definitely

hit a low point in my life,

947

:

it was pretty low, you know?

948

:

But to be able to record that

now and look at it and say

949

:

Yeah,

950

:

and that snapshot of that moment is real.

951

:

You know, like,

952

:

that's some real shit right there.

953

:

But, you know, hopefully as a little

bit of humor comes through in there.

954

:

I mean, like, the, at the end of the day,

all I do is, like, I think about just

955

:

walking out wearing the robe.

956

:

You know like Maybe, you know, you know,

we get, we get pretty down on ourselves.

957

:

We can beat up ourselves.

958

:

I know.

959

:

I think that's a universal thing,

whether you're an artist or not,

960

:

we can just be our own worst critics,

961

:

regardless of what,

962

:

what we do in life.

963

:

And I think everybody can relate

to like, just really like,

964

:

getting down on yourself and, and

kind of like, let's, let's worst

965

:

case scenario, this, you know?

966

:

let's, let's worst case scenario

that, now that I release it that

967

:

I start to have reservations,

968

:

where I'm like, Wow, that

is kind of some intense

969

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

970

:

Jack O'Neill: Is it intense, Or do people,

971

:

You know,

972

:

now, now I have self doubt

973

:

channeling through my

974

:

veins of

975

:

did, you know,

976

:

you know,

977

:

um, cause you don't want to you know,

978

:

you

979

:

you want to, don't want to, uh,

980

:

want

981

:

make fun of of, you know, serious

982

:

of

983

:

make

984

:

you know, anybody might

have, but I can only say that

985

:

know,

986

:

I shared them, you know, like,

987

:

Jason English (Host): you know,

988

:

anybody like that.

989

:

But I can only say that I share them.

990

:

Of his journal when he was

trying to become sober.

991

:

So like when he was going through that

process every day, he'd wrote, he'd

992

:

write down just a random thought and

it could be sad, it could be anger.

993

:

It could be something that reminds

him of his family or whatever.

994

:

And his point in that is like, if people

were trying to do dry January, even

995

:

that is a struggle for a lot of people.

996

:

And so he just wanted to put out like

these thoughts to encourage people.

997

:

And uh, you know, I think the response

To him of that being vulnerable just

998

:

on social media like on instagram of

sharing those things I mean, I know he's

999

:

gotten so much positive feedback of like

man, I you know I know what that's like

:

00:36:59,495 --> 00:37:03,565

and it's the it's the roller coaster of

the feelings and all those things so I

:

00:37:03,565 --> 00:37:08,165

think like that to me, that's why art

is art and music is music and we need

:

00:37:08,165 --> 00:37:15,445

people like you all to express those

Experiences in a way that It can relate

:

00:37:15,445 --> 00:37:17,105

to, you know, as many people as possible.

:

00:37:17,105 --> 00:37:19,735

So I know, I know what you're saying in

:

00:37:19,735 --> 00:37:20,095

terms of the

:

00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:20,300

Jack O'Neill: No,

:

00:37:20,365 --> 00:37:22,215

Jason English (Host): doubt, but

like it's, it's all good man.

:

00:37:24,290 --> 00:37:24,660

Jack O'Neill: yeah, I,

:

00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:25,600

I appreciate that.

:

00:37:25,650 --> 00:37:29,760

I mean, you know, to me that

the art I always connect with is

:

00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,150

something that, you know, obviously

:

00:37:32,267 --> 00:37:33,029

know, obviously

:

00:37:33,029 --> 00:37:33,410

says

:

00:37:33,420 --> 00:37:36,660

says something about like,

Hey, you're, you're not alone.

:

00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:36,930

Like

:

00:37:36,930 --> 00:37:37,310

we're, we're

:

00:37:37,310 --> 00:37:39,510

kind of all, we're all

:

00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:42,020

kind of going through

this thing, you know, Like

:

00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,370

you're not crazy, man.

:

00:37:43,390 --> 00:37:44,090

You know, like

:

00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:45,630

what you're thinking about.

:

00:37:45,630 --> 00:37:48,330

or what you're feeling, You

know, you're, you're not the

:

00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:50,030

only person in the world that's

:

00:37:50,268 --> 00:37:50,641

feeling

:

00:37:50,641 --> 00:37:51,015

that

:

00:37:51,065 --> 00:37:51,565

right now.

:

00:37:52,045 --> 00:37:56,645

And, um, so I've always kind of

gravitated that kind of stuff.

:

00:37:56,905 --> 00:37:58,725

Even when I was a kid, you know, like,

:

00:37:59,037 --> 00:37:59,587

like,

:

00:37:59,845 --> 00:38:01,005

the lyrics were important.

:

00:38:01,375 --> 00:38:03,625

Um, the Edmund Fitzgerald, I

don't know if you remember that

:

00:38:03,993 --> 00:38:04,544

Jason English (Host): that

:

00:38:04,805 --> 00:38:05,555

Jack O'Neill: I was fascinated

:

00:38:05,555 --> 00:38:07,255

by it when I was like

five or six years old.

:

00:38:07,515 --> 00:38:07,995

Because

:

00:38:07,995 --> 00:38:08,475

it

:

00:38:08,625 --> 00:38:10,785

Cause it told the true

story about the shipwreck.

:

00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:12,710

You know, and I

:

00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:13,300

asked my mom,

:

00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:14,440

like, is this real?

:

00:38:14,500 --> 00:38:16,200

She was like, it's a real thing, man.

:

00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,680

And uh, she was like, look

it up in the encyclopedia.

:

00:38:19,810 --> 00:38:20,980

Jason English (Host): Oh

my gosh, that's awesome.

:

00:38:20,980 --> 00:38:21,250

Yeah,

:

00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:22,640

Jack O'Neill: which we had and

:

00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,410

which it was in there,

you know what I mean?

:

00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:26,720

I was like, this, this

is in the encyclopedia.

:

00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:27,870

This is some legit shit.

:

00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,250

Um, but I mean that universal story,

you know, I just thought about

:

00:38:33,010 --> 00:38:36,050

the sailors on the ship and their

families at the church service.

:

00:38:36,050 --> 00:38:39,630

And I just, that was so just

profound to me is a six year old.

:

00:38:39,630 --> 00:38:39,890

So.

:

00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,080

That kind of stuff, um,

kind of sticks with me.

:

00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,330

So maybe that's the reason,

you know, maybe that's the

:

00:38:46,330 --> 00:38:50,160

reason, you know, a lot of times

you start writing something and

:

00:38:51,540 --> 00:38:52,880

you don't know where it's going.

:

00:38:53,210 --> 00:38:55,640

You don't know why you're writing it.

:

00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:01,420

You know, you don't, you know, it's

like the, the, the secret reveals

:

00:39:01,420 --> 00:39:03,120

itself or it doesn't, I don't know.

:

00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,990

You know, it's, it's like a,

being a detective kind of.

:

00:39:09,145 --> 00:39:12,325

Jason English (Host): again, as a fan and

someone that's listened to you forever,

:

00:39:13,245 --> 00:39:16,885

the fact that you came to that realization

that you're an artist and a songwriter.

:

00:39:17,185 --> 00:39:21,415

And the fact that now that you Have

sort of accepted the fact that you

:

00:39:21,445 --> 00:39:24,935

need to write songs is I think it's

great news for everybody But you've

:

00:39:24,935 --> 00:39:30,325

been writing amazing songs with amazing

lyrics for 30 35 years So for all of

:

00:39:30,325 --> 00:39:33,295

us, like we're i'm excited to hear that

you're going to be doing more of that.

:

00:39:33,295 --> 00:39:33,885

So that's great

:

00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:36,070

Jack O'Neill: Well, thank you, man.

:

00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:36,720

Thank you.

:

00:39:37,325 --> 00:39:41,425

Jason English (Host): it's almost fourth

of july Um in one of the Other recent

:

00:39:41,425 --> 00:39:47,175

songs that you've released as part of

this process is called damn good son and

:

00:39:47,175 --> 00:39:54,165

uh Yeah, this is like it's like a born

on the fourth of july kind of vibe, uh

:

00:39:54,185 --> 00:39:58,015

when I listened to it and when I read

it um I'll just read some lyrics and

:

00:39:58,015 --> 00:40:00,465

then if you could give us some context

to that we could talk about that.

:

00:40:00,485 --> 00:40:00,795

It's

:

00:40:00,815 --> 00:40:05,945

uh um This is kind of in the

middle in good american country.

:

00:40:05,965 --> 00:40:07,415

What's left of a hurricane?

:

00:40:07,970 --> 00:40:09,760

So it's a small southern town.

:

00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:12,820

We stand our ground beneath

the trees that line the lake.

:

00:40:13,260 --> 00:40:17,170

I was a damn good son and I did what I

could to be everything you asked of me.

:

00:40:17,570 --> 00:40:20,790

The words I spoke, the oath I took,

and just the beating heart of me.

:

00:40:21,390 --> 00:40:23,630

You can cover yourself in

the night like a glory.

:

00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:25,490

It ain't never gonna set you free.

:

00:40:26,430 --> 00:40:32,320

Um, so I'm getting that, hey, I'm a

damn good son of America and I gave an

:

00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,360

oath to serve the country and stuff,

but I, I'm just wondering like what.

:

00:40:36,375 --> 00:40:37,925

When did you come up with that?

:

00:40:37,925 --> 00:40:39,375

And what was the context of that?

:

00:40:41,770 --> 00:40:45,260

Jack O'Neill: Well, I mean,

that's a pretty spot on analysis.

:

00:40:45,340 --> 00:40:45,940

So,

:

00:40:47,655 --> 00:40:47,825

Cause

:

00:40:47,825 --> 00:40:49,885

Jason English (Host): you, you come,

you come from a military family, right?

:

00:40:49,980 --> 00:40:50,295

Jack O'Neill: Yeah.

:

00:40:50,295 --> 00:40:50,610

So

:

00:40:51,007 --> 00:40:51,087

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

:

00:40:51,122 --> 00:40:51,862

Jack O'Neill: I come from a,

:

00:40:51,892 --> 00:40:54,542

uh, my dad, it was a career army.

:

00:40:56,032 --> 00:40:56,882

Uh, the army.

:

00:40:56,882 --> 00:40:57,037

Yeah, right.

:

00:40:57,317 --> 00:40:58,167

He didn't choose the

:

00:40:58,167 --> 00:40:58,517

army.

:

00:40:58,517 --> 00:40:59,167

Let's put it that

:

00:40:59,167 --> 00:40:59,397

way.

:

00:40:59,397 --> 00:41:00,347

The draft

:

00:41:00,387 --> 00:41:00,957

chose him.

:

00:41:00,957 --> 00:41:01,687

during Vietnam.

:

00:41:01,687 --> 00:41:02,837

He's a combat veteran.

:

00:41:03,617 --> 00:41:05,027

Uh, he's a paratrooper.

:

00:41:05,497 --> 00:41:05,667

My

:

00:41:06,117 --> 00:41:06,847

My mother

:

00:41:06,857 --> 00:41:08,677

was pregnant with me

:

00:41:08,947 --> 00:41:10,357

when my dad went to Vietnam.

:

00:41:10,907 --> 00:41:12,027

So this, um,

:

00:41:13,727 --> 00:41:15,477

you know, so I

:

00:41:15,497 --> 00:41:17,417

grew up in, in, in that environment.

:

00:41:17,457 --> 00:41:19,137

My dad was a career army guy

:

00:41:19,957 --> 00:41:20,317

and just

:

00:41:20,317 --> 00:41:20,437

a

:

00:41:20,457 --> 00:41:21,187

great dude.

:

00:41:21,197 --> 00:41:22,277

He's a great dude.

:

00:41:22,917 --> 00:41:24,797

Um, you know, but

:

00:41:24,797 --> 00:41:26,487

he's, you know, master parachutist,

:

00:41:26,907 --> 00:41:27,207

Been in

:

00:41:27,207 --> 00:41:28,327

combat, like,

:

00:41:28,847 --> 00:41:29,347

so cool.

:

00:41:29,357 --> 00:41:31,597

But I grew up bouncing

around all these army posts.

:

00:41:31,627 --> 00:41:33,717

And I mean, it was just

such a huge part of my life.

:

00:41:34,277 --> 00:41:34,907

All of it.

:

00:41:34,967 --> 00:41:37,037

Um, so I don't know

:

00:41:37,037 --> 00:41:37,477

when it was.

:

00:41:37,497 --> 00:41:37,987

It was

:

00:41:38,647 --> 00:41:40,097

six years ago or something.

:

00:41:41,187 --> 00:41:41,507

there was

:

00:41:41,507 --> 00:41:43,247

a really rare hurricane

:

00:41:44,587 --> 00:41:44,947

that

:

00:41:45,587 --> 00:41:45,857

was

:

00:41:45,897 --> 00:41:50,457

weak and lame, but it soaked the shit

out of Texas on Memorial Day weekend.

:

00:41:51,607 --> 00:41:54,407

And I'm up in New York, and I'm

like, man, that is going to ruin

:

00:41:54,567 --> 00:41:55,847

some barbecues, you know?

:

00:41:56,242 --> 00:41:57,092

Jason English (Host): Seriously, yeah.

:

00:41:57,787 --> 00:41:59,517

Jack O'Neill: So then,

of course, I'm like,

:

00:41:59,517 --> 00:42:00,997

well, you know, it's going to

:

00:42:00,997 --> 00:42:03,127

ruin barbecues, man,

but it's Memorial Day.

:

00:42:03,127 --> 00:42:06,187

I mean, we should, you know, we should

be also be thinking about the sacrifice.

:

00:42:06,187 --> 00:42:09,587

you know, So I got all heavy about

it, and I thought, all right, What

:

00:42:09,587 --> 00:42:11,737

if, what if a bunch of, uh, you know,

:

00:42:12,064 --> 00:42:12,438

veterans

:

00:42:12,438 --> 00:42:12,812

were

:

00:42:12,817 --> 00:42:14,587

veterans were like, screw it.

:

00:42:14,617 --> 00:42:17,017

we're going down to the lake,

drinking beer, and we're going to,

:

00:42:17,298 --> 00:42:17,672

then,

:

00:42:17,672 --> 00:42:18,046

you

:

00:42:18,077 --> 00:42:21,087

we're going to toast, toast

ourselves, toast our absent

:

00:42:21,087 --> 00:42:22,187

friends, that kind of thing.

:

00:42:22,557 --> 00:42:24,657

So that's on the surface,

where it started.

:

00:42:24,657 --> 00:42:25,457

And of course, I

:

00:42:25,997 --> 00:42:29,237

specifically am thinking of like Fort

Hood, Texas, and the lakes around

:

00:42:29,237 --> 00:42:30,347

there, where I went to high school.

:

00:42:31,097 --> 00:42:36,247

You know, so I can be very specific with,

you know, like, geography and stuff.

:

00:42:36,247 --> 00:42:36,907

when I'm writing this.

:

00:42:37,987 --> 00:42:41,047

But I was working on that song for a long

time, I'm like, man, this is just too

:

00:42:41,647 --> 00:42:41,957

this is

:

00:42:41,957 --> 00:42:42,417

too much.

:

00:42:42,417 --> 00:42:43,017

What am I doing?

:

00:42:43,017 --> 00:42:44,237

It's too heavy handed.

:

00:42:44,237 --> 00:42:46,447

Like, I It's truthful.

:

00:42:46,497 --> 00:42:48,627

I believe this, but I don't know

:

00:42:49,712 --> 00:42:49,842

Uh,

:

00:42:50,342 --> 00:42:50,672

It's too

:

00:42:50,672 --> 00:42:51,282

much for me.

:

00:42:51,422 --> 00:42:52,312

you know, So I kept

:

00:42:52,572 --> 00:42:53,312

walking away from

:

00:42:53,312 --> 00:42:53,472

it.

:

00:42:54,392 --> 00:42:54,702

and then I

:

00:42:54,722 --> 00:42:55,302

go back.

:

00:42:56,002 --> 00:42:56,732

And, um,

:

00:42:58,342 --> 00:42:59,852

The Damn Good Son thing,

:

00:43:00,712 --> 00:43:01,112

uh,

:

00:43:01,512 --> 00:43:03,202

It hit me, like, about a year ago.

:

00:43:04,842 --> 00:43:05,392

uh, that the

:

00:43:05,392 --> 00:43:09,242

reason I wrote the song, actually, you

know, topically, yes, you're correct.

:

00:43:09,292 --> 00:43:12,442

That's what it was topically,

But really, the story,

:

00:43:13,172 --> 00:43:15,872

for me, internally, personally, is

:

00:43:17,597 --> 00:43:18,127

Finding my

:

00:43:18,127 --> 00:43:20,447

way back from, uh, from being a

:

00:43:20,577 --> 00:43:21,677

really terrible

:

00:43:21,727 --> 00:43:22,767

alcoholic dude

:

00:43:23,867 --> 00:43:24,387

And,

:

00:43:24,397 --> 00:43:25,287

and, and,

:

00:43:26,067 --> 00:43:27,797

and trying to find my way,

:

00:43:28,087 --> 00:43:32,147

way back to being, you know,

kind of the, the kid I was.

:

00:43:32,147 --> 00:43:36,557

you know, And what really drove

that home is, is uh, a couple of

:

00:43:36,557 --> 00:43:39,127

years into my sobriety, my mother

:

00:43:39,350 --> 00:43:39,774

mother

:

00:43:39,774 --> 00:43:40,199

passed

:

00:43:40,227 --> 00:43:42,787

um, who passed away in March.

:

00:43:43,077 --> 00:43:45,307

um, Said to me,

:

00:43:45,715 --> 00:43:46,139

Jackie,

:

00:43:46,139 --> 00:43:46,563

you

:

00:43:46,747 --> 00:43:48,957

And she always called me

Jackie, she said, Jackie,

:

00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:50,382

when you were

:

00:43:50,382 --> 00:43:50,806

15

:

00:43:50,927 --> 00:43:53,247

you remind me of how you were

when you were 15 years old.

:

00:43:53,297 --> 00:43:53,817

You're just

:

00:43:54,201 --> 00:43:54,625

seen

:

00:43:54,817 --> 00:43:55,377

so,

:

00:43:55,474 --> 00:43:56,322

in a

:

00:43:56,322 --> 00:43:56,746

long

:

00:43:56,957 --> 00:43:58,807

I just haven't seen

this kid in a long time.

:

00:43:59,047 --> 00:44:00,447

you know, and I'm like, oh wow.

:

00:44:01,167 --> 00:44:01,837

And.

:

00:44:04,257 --> 00:44:06,327

My parents knew I quit

drinking, but I didn't

:

00:44:06,387 --> 00:44:09,037

they didn't know, like,

the, you know, the,

:

00:44:09,147 --> 00:44:10,887

the, the

:

00:44:10,897 --> 00:44:11,437

inside

:

00:44:11,437 --> 00:44:12,027

boxing

:

00:44:12,177 --> 00:44:13,347

of the whole thing.

:

00:44:13,417 --> 00:44:14,967

You know, they were just

like, oh, you quit drinking?

:

00:44:14,967 --> 00:44:16,067

That's, that's good.

:

00:44:16,077 --> 00:44:17,007

You don't need to do that.

:

00:44:17,007 --> 00:44:17,907

Here, have a beer, you know.

:

00:44:17,907 --> 00:44:21,097

Um,

:

00:44:21,277 --> 00:44:21,677

but it

:

00:44:21,677 --> 00:44:23,847

kind of hit me, uh, about a year ago.

:

00:44:23,857 --> 00:44:26,077

I was like, oh, that's actually

what the song is really about.

:

00:44:26,107 --> 00:44:28,887

And that's why I couldn't

let it go, and that's why

:

00:44:29,537 --> 00:44:29,977

I made

:

00:44:29,987 --> 00:44:34,507

up another story to try to

tell, uh, the actual story.

:

00:44:34,527 --> 00:44:42,527

which is, you know, a pretty classic

story, the lost son, but, um, You

:

00:44:42,527 --> 00:44:45,357

know, It's like trying to find your

find your way back after you, you've

:

00:44:45,357 --> 00:44:45,372

gone

:

00:44:46,322 --> 00:44:47,762

gone through something, whether

:

00:44:47,842 --> 00:44:49,122

it's by your own design,

:

00:44:49,122 --> 00:44:50,882

which in my case, mostly was,

:

00:44:51,452 --> 00:44:51,872

you know, it's

:

00:44:51,882 --> 00:44:53,792

finding your way back to to being

:

00:44:53,792 --> 00:44:54,442

a, uh, the

:

00:44:54,462 --> 00:44:57,182

the better or best version of yourself,

:

00:44:58,322 --> 00:44:58,802

or the, maybe

:

00:44:58,992 --> 00:45:02,462

the version of yourself you were

always supposed to be before you

:

00:45:02,462 --> 00:45:04,232

lost, kind of lost your shit.

:

00:45:04,342 --> 00:45:08,762

And kind of, kind of, uh, uh, you know,

a universal, uh, you know, I think,

:

00:45:09,712 --> 00:45:11,002

I think we can all relate to that.

:

00:45:11,452 --> 00:45:14,722

Uh, just The story, the

details are different.

:

00:45:14,742 --> 00:45:15,982

The story is kind of the same.

:

00:45:16,092 --> 00:45:16,382

you know?

:

00:45:16,382 --> 00:45:20,792

Yeah.

:

00:45:20,827 --> 00:45:21,697

Jason English (Host):

you content and happy?

:

00:45:21,697 --> 00:45:23,277

And you're like, this is

the happiest I've ever been.

:

00:45:23,992 --> 00:45:26,692

I think she was probably picking

up on that, which is great.

:

00:45:26,692 --> 00:45:29,702

Right before she passed,

that she could see that.

:

00:45:29,762 --> 00:45:33,352

And I was going to say this earlier, but

you know, with all the stuff that you

:

00:45:33,352 --> 00:45:38,292

and Cary are doing on social media now,

you, I can tell there's like a lightness,

:

00:45:39,262 --> 00:45:43,712

there's just like your, your persona and

there's like the, like, this is like fun.

:

00:45:44,322 --> 00:45:46,522

Let's not take ourselves too seriously.

:

00:45:46,692 --> 00:45:50,442

Enjoyment, joyfulness,

kind of persona that.

:

00:45:51,302 --> 00:45:55,462

I know wasn't there 20 years ago when, uh,

if I ever saw you in concert or, you know,

:

00:45:55,462 --> 00:45:59,712

saw a video or whatever of you, like, so

I think, I think she was picked, probably

:

00:45:59,712 --> 00:46:04,252

picking up on what you said earlier about,

you know, you're in a great spot and you

:

00:46:04,262 --> 00:46:06,032

sort of come back to be that 15 year old.

:

00:46:06,032 --> 00:46:07,502

So I think, I think that's beautiful.

:

00:46:07,652 --> 00:46:08,512

Jack O'Neill: I think, I hope so.

:

00:46:08,512 --> 00:46:09,342

Yeah, I think so.

:

00:46:09,342 --> 00:46:10,312

And I think you're right.

:

00:46:10,322 --> 00:46:10,732

There's a,

:

00:46:10,812 --> 00:46:11,907

uh, you know, kind of a,

:

00:46:11,983 --> 00:46:13,892

you know,

:

00:46:13,892 --> 00:46:14,557

know you get to a point

:

00:46:14,877 --> 00:46:16,107

I'm at a point now where, you know,

:

00:46:16,107 --> 00:46:18,467

I'm just kind of like, man, this

is, you know, this is what it is.

:

00:46:18,467 --> 00:46:25,017

I'm super fortunate across Many categories

of life, like I'm very thankful.

:

00:46:25,017 --> 00:46:25,527

I try to

:

00:46:25,547 --> 00:46:26,567

every day just kind of

:

00:46:26,577 --> 00:46:30,317

be thankful um, for all of it.

:

00:46:30,407 --> 00:46:30,907

Um,

:

00:46:31,157 --> 00:46:33,527

and then, you know, you talk about

the social media piece of it.

:

00:46:33,537 --> 00:46:34,057

and It's,

:

00:46:34,577 --> 00:46:34,957

I think you

:

00:46:34,957 --> 00:46:37,087

kind of got to be like, you

know, this is kind of ridiculous.

:

00:46:38,607 --> 00:46:42,432

It's kind of a requirement a

little bit to do this shit,

:

00:46:42,462 --> 00:46:44,722

but it's a little ridiculous.

:

00:46:44,752 --> 00:46:46,512

I'm a little ridiculous, but

I've always been kind of a

:

00:46:46,512 --> 00:46:48,582

ridiculous jackass anyway, so.

:

00:46:49,862 --> 00:46:50,142

I'm gonna

:

00:46:50,142 --> 00:46:51,192

lean into it a little bit.

:

00:46:51,232 --> 00:46:53,542

Not enough to lean all the

way into tiktok because

:

00:46:53,684 --> 00:46:54,751

TikTok.

:

00:46:54,772 --> 00:46:58,212

ain't doing that but whatever I digress

:

00:46:58,262 --> 00:46:58,572

Jason English (Host): No, that's

:

00:46:58,572 --> 00:46:58,812

good.

:

00:46:58,832 --> 00:46:59,122

All right.

:

00:46:59,122 --> 00:47:00,012

So damn good son.

:

00:47:00,182 --> 00:47:02,182

Uh, that came out, I

think a month or so ago.

:

00:47:02,232 --> 00:47:04,332

So hopefully everybody can check that out.

:

00:47:04,332 --> 00:47:04,582

That's an

:

00:47:04,582 --> 00:47:09,592

amazing, it's an amazing concept

on how you sort of positioned

:

00:47:09,592 --> 00:47:15,822

it and then Was able to sort of

relay the deeper bit of that.

:

00:47:15,822 --> 00:47:16,232

So thank

:

00:47:16,247 --> 00:47:17,217

Jack O'Neill: yeah, yeah.

:

00:47:17,262 --> 00:47:17,782

Jason English (Host): for going

:

00:47:18,087 --> 00:47:18,777

Jack O'Neill: Oh, sure.

:

00:47:19,232 --> 00:47:20,432

Jason English (Host): so we

mentioned this one earlier.

:

00:47:20,432 --> 00:47:24,652

This was interesting title,

uh, panic in the cul de sac.

:

00:47:25,722 --> 00:47:29,332

So this is about Tommy and Gina

back to living on a prayer, I

:

00:47:29,332 --> 00:47:31,262

think by Bon, John Bon Jovi.

:

00:47:31,782 --> 00:47:32,032

So

:

00:47:32,257 --> 00:47:32,517

Jack O'Neill: Yeah.

:

00:47:32,517 --> 00:47:32,757

Bon

:

00:47:32,757 --> 00:47:33,197

Jovi.

:

00:47:33,492 --> 00:47:36,837

Jason English (Host): did this idea,

I know where the idea came from.

:

00:47:36,837 --> 00:47:40,407

I would assume the song that he,

that he recorded and released.

:

00:47:40,427 --> 00:47:44,187

But at what point in your life did

you say, okay, I'm going to like

:

00:47:44,187 --> 00:47:45,727

make a, make my own sequel here.

:

00:47:47,807 --> 00:47:49,307

Jack O'Neill: uh, pretty late in the

:

00:47:49,307 --> 00:47:49,617

game.

:

00:47:49,617 --> 00:47:51,477

So when I first wrote it,

:

00:47:52,427 --> 00:47:53,297

the first line,

:

00:47:53,317 --> 00:47:54,117

you know, just mess

:

00:47:54,117 --> 00:47:56,947

around on the guitar and you just

kind of make up words and you know,

:

00:47:56,947 --> 00:48:00,187

you're hanging out, and just trying to

:

00:48:01,117 --> 00:48:01,577

make noise.

:

00:48:01,607 --> 00:48:03,967

I just like making noise on

the guitar, you know, like

:

00:48:04,847 --> 00:48:07,017

Slightly embarrassing, But I,

:

00:48:07,627 --> 00:48:10,737

this line popped out, Tommy had a

heart attack on the 5th of June.

:

00:48:11,927 --> 00:48:12,347

and

:

00:48:12,507 --> 00:48:15,227

the way I sang it, you know, just

everything about it intrigued me.

:

00:48:15,227 --> 00:48:16,487

I was like, that was, you know,

:

00:48:17,817 --> 00:48:18,107

that,

:

00:48:18,447 --> 00:48:19,167

that's interesting.

:

00:48:19,997 --> 00:48:20,647

So,

:

00:48:22,907 --> 00:48:25,447

I did not start with like,

okay, Tommy and Gina.

:

00:48:26,917 --> 00:48:27,817

But as I

:

00:48:28,657 --> 00:48:29,027

started

:

00:48:29,027 --> 00:48:30,307

just kind of messing around with like

:

00:48:30,307 --> 00:48:31,377

a theme of it,

:

00:48:32,587 --> 00:48:33,887

you know, Um,

:

00:48:34,987 --> 00:48:35,257

about

:

00:48:35,257 --> 00:48:36,637

this guy who's like, you know,

:

00:48:38,137 --> 00:48:39,187

he's folding

:

00:48:39,187 --> 00:48:40,957

the flags in his dad's garage,

:

00:48:41,137 --> 00:48:42,637

which, you know, he's

:

00:48:42,767 --> 00:48:43,307

cleaning out the

:

00:48:43,697 --> 00:48:46,277

parent's garage after, you

know, somebody's passed away.

:

00:48:47,547 --> 00:48:51,367

And then, uh, I was like, well, I

should introduce another character.

:

00:48:52,667 --> 00:48:53,417

How about Gina?

:

00:48:53,667 --> 00:48:55,157

Holy shit, Tommy and Gina.

:

00:48:55,187 --> 00:48:55,637

Jason English (Host): sheesh

:

00:48:57,842 --> 00:48:58,212

No, that's

:

00:48:58,212 --> 00:48:58,512

good.

:

00:48:58,697 --> 00:48:59,527

Jack O'Neill: And then,

:

00:49:00,347 --> 00:49:01,637

after I recorded it,

:

00:49:01,707 --> 00:49:02,837

I I was playing

:

00:49:02,917 --> 00:49:03,517

one of,

:

00:49:03,567 --> 00:49:06,177

uh, a very rare live show in New York,

:

00:49:06,787 --> 00:49:07,217

And I was,

:

00:49:07,257 --> 00:49:08,817

I was, like, man, I should, uh,

:

00:49:09,527 --> 00:49:09,857

you know, I've

:

00:49:09,857 --> 00:49:11,747

acknowledged that Tommy and Gina kind of

:

00:49:12,687 --> 00:49:13,427

inspired

:

00:49:13,427 --> 00:49:15,527

this, you know, kind of

like what happened to them.

:

00:49:16,577 --> 00:49:17,857

Did they move to the suburbs?

:

00:49:17,857 --> 00:49:18,227

You know, like,

:

00:49:18,847 --> 00:49:19,687

Do they get married?

:

00:49:19,697 --> 00:49:22,547

You know, like, cause at the

time of the original song, he

:

00:49:22,547 --> 00:49:24,247

was working on the docks, but the

:

00:49:24,247 --> 00:49:25,457

union was on strike

:

00:49:26,357 --> 00:49:26,757

and she

:

00:49:26,757 --> 00:49:28,767

was working the diner all day.

:

00:49:30,027 --> 00:49:32,527

To take care of her man,

so I already there's some

:

00:49:32,527 --> 00:49:33,577

tension, you know what I mean?

:

00:49:33,717 --> 00:49:34,022

I mean?

:

00:49:34,022 --> 00:49:35,192

So, uh

:

00:49:36,792 --> 00:49:37,112

Before

:

00:49:37,157 --> 00:49:39,477

before I played this live show

I was like, man, you know what?

:

00:49:39,507 --> 00:49:42,767

I don't know how to play living

on a prayer by bon jovi I should

:

00:49:42,767 --> 00:49:42,787

you know,

:

00:49:44,257 --> 00:49:44,567

I should

:

00:49:44,567 --> 00:49:44,897

whip it

:

00:49:44,937 --> 00:49:46,497

whip it up a little bit and man.

:

00:49:46,507 --> 00:49:47,807

It is so similar,

:

00:49:48,357 --> 00:49:48,607

you know,

:

00:49:48,607 --> 00:49:49,017

like

:

00:49:49,132 --> 00:49:49,462

yeah

:

00:49:50,017 --> 00:49:50,327

the,

:

00:49:50,327 --> 00:49:50,647

uh

:

00:49:50,647 --> 00:49:54,407

You know the chords and everything

anyway, it's just weird how music works.

:

00:49:54,417 --> 00:49:55,117

I think it's

:

00:49:56,867 --> 00:49:58,927

It's kind of like, you know,

the inspiration you take

:

00:49:58,927 --> 00:50:01,647

is, uh, as a, uh, a writer

:

00:50:02,437 --> 00:50:04,347

or the inspiration you take as a human,

:

00:50:05,397 --> 00:50:07,037

is everything that you bring in.

:

00:50:07,057 --> 00:50:08,987

Like, you're the original algorithm.

:

00:50:09,197 --> 00:50:09,707

So,

:

00:50:10,847 --> 00:50:12,237

every song I ever heard,

:

00:50:13,307 --> 00:50:13,517

every

:

00:50:13,517 --> 00:50:16,487

movie I've ever seen, you know,

conversations I've had, I'll kind

:

00:50:16,487 --> 00:50:18,227

of go through the the algorithm.

:

00:50:18,827 --> 00:50:19,607

And pieces of it

:

00:50:19,607 --> 00:50:21,707

fi pop up and find their way.

:

00:50:22,397 --> 00:50:25,397

into your conscious as

you're, you're creating stuff.

:

00:50:25,402 --> 00:50:27,857

And I can't

:

00:50:27,862 --> 00:50:30,437

say, you know, I had a

particular, I was not a big

:

00:50:31,007 --> 00:50:33,797

Bon Jovi fan, like I was

very familiar with their

:

00:50:34,337 --> 00:50:36,437

their body of work as a kid.

:

00:50:37,367 --> 00:50:37,787

Um.

:

00:50:38,957 --> 00:50:39,917

and then I was like, man,

:

00:50:39,947 --> 00:50:41,117

these guys are bad ass.

:

00:50:41,127 --> 00:50:41,897

Like these songs are

:

00:50:42,067 --> 00:50:42,497

great.

:

00:50:42,497 --> 00:50:47,277

Um, you know, so it,

really started with like,

:

00:50:47,567 --> 00:50:48,287

I mean,

:

00:50:48,287 --> 00:50:48,837

what am I saying?

:

00:50:48,837 --> 00:50:51,107

It started, but anyway,

Tommy and Gina kind of.

:

00:50:53,927 --> 00:50:54,427

Got

:

00:50:54,447 --> 00:50:55,147

mixed up in

:

00:50:55,147 --> 00:50:56,697

like this idea of like

:

00:50:57,427 --> 00:51:00,127

having a panic attack

versus having a heart attack

:

00:51:01,307 --> 00:51:04,047

and how like in a, in a

neighborhood, people are,

:

00:51:04,307 --> 00:51:05,017

you know, kind of

:

00:51:05,387 --> 00:51:07,257

pretty aware of other

people's business and

:

00:51:07,372 --> 00:51:08,462

Jason English (Host): and

well, especially in the cul de

:

00:51:08,462 --> 00:51:09,112

sac, right?

:

00:51:09,162 --> 00:51:10,042

Jack O'Neill: know, I

heard somebody had a,

:

00:51:10,337 --> 00:51:10,872

Jason English (Host): a

:

00:51:10,872 --> 00:51:11,407

um,

:

00:51:11,422 --> 00:51:12,382

Jack O'Neill: well, the cul de sac.

:

00:51:12,382 --> 00:51:14,272

I just wanted to use the word cul de sac.

:

00:51:14,322 --> 00:51:15,292

I do that a lot too.

:

00:51:15,292 --> 00:51:17,682

I just like, ah, see if I can fit that in.

:

00:51:17,682 --> 00:51:17,992

there.

:

00:51:18,662 --> 00:51:19,092

Um.

:

00:51:20,962 --> 00:51:21,482

yeah, you know,

:

00:51:21,482 --> 00:51:24,202

and it's, it's just, it

is a question of like,

:

00:51:24,432 --> 00:51:26,032

that was such a hopeful song

:

00:51:26,192 --> 00:51:28,272

and a little bit of a

heartbreaker back then.

:

00:51:28,692 --> 00:51:31,702

It's like, what, what could

have happened And, um,

:

00:51:32,882 --> 00:51:34,592

Sorry if it got a little disappointing.

:

00:51:34,662 --> 00:51:35,182

I don't know.

:

00:51:35,292 --> 00:51:38,402

I think it's pretty open ended, what

ha what happens in the end in this one.

:

00:51:39,092 --> 00:51:41,072

There's no, there's no

narrative How about that.

:

00:51:41,122 --> 00:51:43,392

Like, The story kind of begins and then

:

00:51:45,232 --> 00:51:45,672

leaves you

:

00:51:45,672 --> 00:51:46,902

with the rumor mill, I guess.

:

00:51:46,902 --> 00:51:47,602

I don't know.

:

00:51:48,902 --> 00:51:50,752

Jason English (Host): As it

should in a cul de sac, right?

:

00:51:50,812 --> 00:51:54,082

Rumors start and they go

crazy, so that's good.

:

00:51:55,042 --> 00:51:59,172

Um, alright, well the first single

was, uh, Weight of the World.

:

00:52:00,282 --> 00:52:03,512

And I will say, like,

that's probably the poppiest

:

00:52:05,322 --> 00:52:09,742

something, you know, poppiest thing

that, uh, I think, I think that you've

:

00:52:09,742 --> 00:52:12,072

ever sort of produced and released.

:

00:52:13,107 --> 00:52:13,587

it's very,

:

00:52:13,662 --> 00:52:14,362

Jack O'Neill: pretty pop pretty

:

00:52:14,547 --> 00:52:16,257

Jason English (Host): Your, Your,

videos walk in the streets of New

:

00:52:16,257 --> 00:52:19,277

York's, you know, it's kind of singing

it back to your point earlier, but

:

00:52:19,277 --> 00:52:20,647

not taking things too seriously.

:

00:52:20,647 --> 00:52:23,317

Like I would have loved to have

been a fly on the wall while

:

00:52:23,317 --> 00:52:24,557

you were like recording that.

:

00:52:24,607 --> 00:52:25,327

Um, but anyway,

:

00:52:25,367 --> 00:52:25,857

the tune

:

00:52:25,857 --> 00:52:26,227

is great.

:

00:52:26,237 --> 00:52:27,147

The melody is great.

:

00:52:27,727 --> 00:52:32,687

Um, I guess what, so if I understand

some of the notes that I've seen

:

00:52:32,697 --> 00:52:35,567

around when that was released, you

know, it's about a relationship, kind

:

00:52:35,567 --> 00:52:36,997

of the bookends of a relationship.

:

00:52:37,392 --> 00:52:41,602

and all the things in between, but

what, what exactly is the weight of

:

00:52:41,602 --> 00:52:43,262

the world that you're referring to?

:

00:52:43,312 --> 00:52:47,812

Is it the burden of a relationship

or is it the burden of life?

:

00:52:47,812 --> 00:52:48,332

I, you know,

:

00:52:48,342 --> 00:52:48,862

that's, that's,

:

00:52:48,882 --> 00:52:51,072

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, I mean,

it's kind of, it's, Yeah.

:

00:52:51,082 --> 00:52:53,352

It's kind of like the

weight of the world is like,

:

00:52:53,463 --> 00:52:54,415

the world is

:

00:52:54,415 --> 00:52:54,732

like,

:

00:52:54,872 --> 00:52:58,392

you know, you know, try and fail, like,

:

00:52:58,832 --> 00:52:59,862

you know, give it a shot.

:

00:53:00,282 --> 00:53:00,932

like, go for it.

:

00:53:01,172 --> 00:53:02,222

Like, it's not, you know,

:

00:53:02,366 --> 00:53:03,195

on, you

:

00:53:03,195 --> 00:53:03,610

know

:

00:53:03,610 --> 00:53:04,152

move on.

:

00:53:04,292 --> 00:53:04,822

You know what I mean?

:

00:53:04,822 --> 00:53:05,762

Like, it didn't work.

:

00:53:06,098 --> 00:53:06,513

work.

:

00:53:06,513 --> 00:53:07,213

haul ass..

:

00:53:07,282 --> 00:53:07,752

Um,

:

00:53:08,422 --> 00:53:08,852

kind of like

:

00:53:08,852 --> 00:53:09,122

that.

:

00:53:10,032 --> 00:53:11,117

that.

:

00:53:11,117 --> 00:53:13,882

song actually started, I was writing, um,

:

00:53:14,932 --> 00:53:19,932

scenes for a short film that we

started filming a little bit,

:

00:53:20,182 --> 00:53:22,582

uh, me and a couple of actor friends.

:

00:53:22,612 --> 00:53:26,585

And, I got into that process

and was like, wow, I,

:

00:53:26,585 --> 00:53:28,266

I, I'm kind of out

:

00:53:28,266 --> 00:53:29,932

of my league here.

:

00:53:30,042 --> 00:53:31,282

Um, this is a

:

00:53:31,282 --> 00:53:32,192

big commitment.

:

00:53:32,532 --> 00:53:35,602

If, you know, we're gonna

do this correctly, and

:

00:53:37,332 --> 00:53:37,442

it's

:

00:53:37,442 --> 00:53:38,392

gonna need, you know,

:

00:53:39,132 --> 00:53:40,332

it's gonna need a lot more

:

00:53:40,462 --> 00:53:43,362

time and energy than I think

I'm willing to do right now.

:

00:53:44,402 --> 00:53:44,722

So I was

:

00:53:44,722 --> 00:53:46,732

like, well, I got a few of these scenes,

:

00:53:47,177 --> 00:53:47,717

I'm just gonna,

:

00:53:48,027 --> 00:53:48,307

shit

:

00:53:48,317 --> 00:53:49,517

man, I'm gonna turn it into a song.

:

00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:50,092

song.

:

00:53:50,092 --> 00:53:50,917

So really,

:

00:53:51,257 --> 00:53:53,357

So really the idea of the song was

:

00:53:53,457 --> 00:53:54,257

two people meet,

:

00:53:56,187 --> 00:53:56,557

for me, a

:

00:53:56,557 --> 00:53:57,557

very specific place.

:

00:53:57,567 --> 00:54:00,577

the B62 bus stop over

here on Jackson Avenue.

:

00:54:01,657 --> 00:54:04,537

Um, And then, uh,

:

00:54:05,397 --> 00:54:06,267

they meet there,

:

00:54:06,807 --> 00:54:07,577

by accident,

:

00:54:08,777 --> 00:54:09,007

And then the

:

00:54:09,007 --> 00:54:09,847

next scene

:

00:54:10,017 --> 00:54:12,537

they're breaking up on 7th Avenue South,

:

00:54:13,527 --> 00:54:13,867

which is

:

00:54:13,867 --> 00:54:15,657

also another very specific spot,

:

00:54:16,682 --> 00:54:17,522

and, um,

:

00:54:18,332 --> 00:54:18,752

you know, kind

:

00:54:18,752 --> 00:54:19,832

of the idea is like,

:

00:54:21,412 --> 00:54:23,252

you know, you remember

the, like, the first big

:

00:54:23,252 --> 00:54:23,602

moment

:

00:54:24,792 --> 00:54:25,082

of

:

00:54:25,302 --> 00:54:25,572

kind of

:

00:54:25,572 --> 00:54:26,532

anything, and

:

00:54:26,532 --> 00:54:28,132

maybe you remember that last.

:

00:54:28,482 --> 00:54:30,502

dramatic moment and then

:

00:54:30,502 --> 00:54:33,542

everything in the middle is

just kind of like a wash and I

:

00:54:33,542 --> 00:54:37,892

represented it with, There was a

killer bar I used to always go to

:

00:54:38,702 --> 00:54:41,442

and my now wife and I used to go

there all the time, Uh, Patrick

:

00:54:41,452 --> 00:54:43,242

Conway's, right over by Grand Central,

:

00:54:44,267 --> 00:54:44,787

And we

:

00:54:44,827 --> 00:54:46,707

we went there like when

we first started dating.

:

00:54:46,787 --> 00:54:47,817

Nobody broke up there.

:

00:54:48,357 --> 00:54:48,867

Um, I

:

00:54:48,867 --> 00:54:50,067

kind of, I spun,

:

00:54:50,087 --> 00:54:50,757

I spun that,

:

00:54:51,122 --> 00:54:52,372

Jason English (Host): But

:

00:54:52,617 --> 00:54:53,247

Jack O'Neill: Conway's,

:

00:54:53,267 --> 00:54:54,347

one day they were like, oh we're

:

00:54:54,347 --> 00:54:55,627

closing Patrick Conway's.

:

00:54:55,667 --> 00:54:56,427

And they, they tore

:

00:54:56,427 --> 00:55:00,627

down the entire city block and

put up a huge, a huge building.

:

00:55:00,627 --> 00:55:01,617

So now it's like a,

:

00:55:01,970 --> 00:55:02,344

uh,

:

00:55:02,344 --> 00:55:02,717

whatever.

:

00:55:02,847 --> 00:55:04,037

you know, whatever.

:

00:55:04,067 --> 00:55:04,357

But

:

00:55:04,587 --> 00:55:04,960

Jason English (Host): I

:

00:55:05,101 --> 00:55:05,334

were

:

00:55:05,457 --> 00:55:07,237

Jack O'Neill: for my wife and

I were like, man, that was kind

:

00:55:07,237 --> 00:55:09,157

of like, that was our place.

:

00:55:09,367 --> 00:55:11,147

We, that's where we first.

:

00:55:11,517 --> 00:55:13,667

first fell in love And it's like, uh,

:

00:55:13,933 --> 00:55:15,054

you have these

:

00:55:15,377 --> 00:55:17,407

you know, you have these

these first moments that are

:

00:55:18,097 --> 00:55:21,047

memorable the last moments that

are memorable and the stuff in

:

00:55:21,047 --> 00:55:21,557

between

:

00:55:21,567 --> 00:55:24,237

will literally get torn

down and replaced by a bank.

:

00:55:24,257 --> 00:55:24,827

You know what I mean?

:

00:55:24,942 --> 00:55:25,367

Jason English (Host): I mean?

:

00:55:25,367 --> 00:55:25,627

Oh wow.

:

00:55:25,817 --> 00:55:26,847

Jack O'Neill: So that's the whole

:

00:55:27,097 --> 00:55:27,567

meet me up.

:

00:55:27,567 --> 00:55:31,347

at Conway's for, you know, Which,

honestly, I put in the song

:

00:55:31,357 --> 00:55:32,127

just for my wife.

:

00:55:32,177 --> 00:55:32,717

Cause I was like,

:

00:55:32,962 --> 00:55:33,299

Jason English (Host): move.

:

00:55:33,299 --> 00:55:33,971

That's a

:

00:55:33,971 --> 00:55:34,307

good

:

00:55:34,327 --> 00:55:34,967

Jack O'Neill: this one's for you

:

00:55:34,967 --> 00:55:35,317

kid.

:

00:55:35,967 --> 00:55:36,237

But,

:

00:55:36,237 --> 00:55:36,597

um,

:

00:55:36,677 --> 00:55:37,504

I think the

:

00:55:37,504 --> 00:55:37,779

way

:

00:55:38,047 --> 00:55:38,927

I think the weight of the world.

:

00:55:38,927 --> 00:55:41,337

Yeah, it's basically like, it's

not the way of the world, man.

:

00:55:41,347 --> 00:55:43,177

Like, you know, like, go out and try.

:

00:55:43,927 --> 00:55:44,687

Try falling in love.

:

00:55:44,687 --> 00:55:45,597

Don't be afraid.

:

00:55:45,697 --> 00:55:47,267

to Fall in love with anything.

:

00:55:47,417 --> 00:55:47,692

Jason English (Host): anything.

:

00:55:47,692 --> 00:55:47,967

Right.

:

00:55:48,047 --> 00:55:48,354

But

:

00:55:48,354 --> 00:55:48,660

if

:

00:55:48,677 --> 00:55:51,967

Jack O'Neill: Don't be afraid to

go out and, you know, swing for the

:

00:55:51,967 --> 00:55:56,127

fences and miss, regardless of what

it is, I mean, the world will not end.

:

00:55:56,167 --> 00:55:57,877

Like, shit will keep on, going.

:

00:55:57,917 --> 00:56:01,407

they will tear it down and

replace it with something else.

:

00:56:01,497 --> 00:56:01,827

you know.

:

00:56:02,125 --> 00:56:02,945

Which isn't a bad thing.

:

00:56:03,995 --> 00:56:07,005

Jason English (Host): I think,

so, based on what, what,

:

00:56:07,165 --> 00:56:08,695

that, just a, a quick comment.

:

00:56:08,695 --> 00:56:11,965

So, I was married a long

time, like 25 years.

:

00:56:12,035 --> 00:56:14,545

Uh, that ended a few years ago.

:

00:56:14,545 --> 00:56:16,645

I moved, moved to the south from Colorado.

:

00:56:16,685 --> 00:56:21,695

And, um, You start to like re you

know, your TikTok you mentioned TikTok

:

00:56:21,715 --> 00:56:25,335

like not that I'm a tick tock guy,

but like, whether it's tick tock or

:

00:56:25,335 --> 00:56:30,055

Instagram, you know, your feeds sort of

start to like take on a life of their

:

00:56:30,055 --> 00:56:31,575

own based on interests or whatever.

:

00:56:31,575 --> 00:56:33,285

And so I, you know, all of a

sudden I started getting all

:

00:56:33,285 --> 00:56:35,175

these like relationship feeds.

:

00:56:35,775 --> 00:56:36,145

And then you

:

00:56:36,145 --> 00:56:36,375

start

:

00:56:36,565 --> 00:56:36,965

Jack O'Neill: ha ha

:

00:56:37,065 --> 00:56:38,495

Jason English (Host): middle

aged people that are single,

:

00:56:38,495 --> 00:56:40,395

that are divorced, whatever.

:

00:56:40,395 --> 00:56:41,495

And they all have this story.

:

00:56:41,505 --> 00:56:43,825

And a lot of people are afraid.

:

00:56:45,015 --> 00:56:50,465

To open themselves up because

of the experiences of a prior

:

00:56:50,465 --> 00:56:53,195

relationship, like they're afraid

to open their heart up, right?

:

00:56:53,795 --> 00:56:54,245

Because they're afraid.

:

00:56:54,245 --> 00:56:56,345

I think they're afraid to get hurt and

:

00:56:56,345 --> 00:56:56,435

they're

:

00:56:56,435 --> 00:56:56,805

afraid.

:

00:56:56,845 --> 00:57:00,975

They're afraid of heart of heartache

and heartbreak and just all that.

:

00:57:00,975 --> 00:57:01,985

And I, and I get that.

:

00:57:02,005 --> 00:57:05,775

But I think what I love about

what you just said is like, the

:

00:57:05,775 --> 00:57:08,775

experience, um, is worth it.

:

00:57:09,165 --> 00:57:09,495

Right.

:

00:57:09,785 --> 00:57:13,405

And at the end of the day, Life

does go on, you know, you're,

:

00:57:13,415 --> 00:57:14,585

you're going to get through it.

:

00:57:14,995 --> 00:57:16,035

They're going to get through it.

:

00:57:16,085 --> 00:57:17,415

You're going to learn from it or whatever.

:

00:57:17,415 --> 00:57:21,535

And I love that perspective because I

think that the outlook that I have was

:

00:57:21,535 --> 00:57:23,525

like, listen, I just want experiences.

:

00:57:23,525 --> 00:57:24,755

I want to meet cool people.

:

00:57:25,255 --> 00:57:27,205

Um, yeah, I never really did that.

:

00:57:27,305 --> 00:57:30,995

Cause I, you know, I fell in

love with my wife at the time,

:

00:57:30,995 --> 00:57:35,395

like ink, you know, early, like

we were young, so I never really

:

00:57:35,735 --> 00:57:37,155

got, had that opportunity.

:

00:57:37,265 --> 00:57:38,875

Um, but at this stage I get it.

:

00:57:38,875 --> 00:57:40,665

Like people have baggage,

they've been hurt.

:

00:57:41,700 --> 00:57:45,220

A lot of people are just so closed,

and I wish that they had, I wish more

:

00:57:45,220 --> 00:57:48,230

people had that perspective of what

you just said about the song, cause

:

00:57:48,860 --> 00:57:51,810

at the end of the day, it's, it's

not, it's not the weight of the world.

:

00:57:54,085 --> 00:57:54,445

Jack O'Neill: It's not.

:

00:57:54,485 --> 00:57:55,705

I mean, It definitely

:

00:57:55,945 --> 00:57:56,605

can feel like

:

00:57:56,605 --> 00:57:56,745

it.

:

00:57:56,865 --> 00:57:57,035

you

:

00:57:57,035 --> 00:57:58,185

know, And,

:

00:57:59,505 --> 00:58:01,825

um, but you know, that's a

great point you just made.

:

00:58:01,825 --> 00:58:03,935

And maybe that's, you know,

:

00:58:05,565 --> 00:58:07,135

there's something even deeper in

:

00:58:07,135 --> 00:58:12,265

the song for me that I don't

haven't even uncovered yet, which

:

00:58:12,565 --> 00:58:13,585

is something you might uncover.

:

00:58:13,715 --> 00:58:19,025

I think that's also, uh, the amazing

thing about songs is the way they can be

:

00:58:19,398 --> 00:58:19,941

way

:

00:58:20,055 --> 00:58:22,605

interpreted or processed or, you know.

:

00:58:23,345 --> 00:58:25,025

speak to different pieces.

:

00:58:25,366 --> 00:58:25,909

It

:

00:58:26,452 --> 00:58:28,079

you know, verses

:

00:58:28,079 --> 00:58:31,675

you know, what, what it means, you

know, versus what the songwriter

:

00:58:31,675 --> 00:58:35,305

intended or maybe the songwriter

didn't intend anything, you know,

:

00:58:36,145 --> 00:58:38,785

Jason English (Host): I do have some

Jackopierce questions, if you don't mind.

:

00:58:38,795 --> 00:58:40,765

And then, uh, if we

could probably wrap up.

:

00:58:40,775 --> 00:58:48,345

But, I think, uh, Um, but yeah, so

the, the, the album that is likely

:

00:58:48,345 --> 00:58:52,195

to be named North Star, based on the

finishing of the North Star song,

:

00:58:52,205 --> 00:58:56,875

which is at some point, when, when

can we expect that, do you think?

:

00:58:56,875 --> 00:58:57,345

Is that

:

00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:03,660

Jack O'Neill: so the, uh, um, So,

:

00:59:04,790 --> 00:59:07,090

now I'm playing games with calendars.

:

00:59:07,100 --> 00:59:11,460

So I'm like, what if I, so my

goal this year was to release

:

00:59:12,250 --> 00:59:14,495

a song every month, And and

:

00:59:14,495 --> 00:59:16,585

I already messed up by missing January.

:

00:59:16,685 --> 00:59:17,185

So

:

00:59:17,396 --> 00:59:17,914

Jason English (Host): Jane.

:

00:59:18,175 --> 00:59:20,925

Jack O'Neill: I'm like, all right,

every month, but Starting with February.

:

00:59:21,825 --> 00:59:24,885

um, oh wait, I wanted to,

I wanted to add one thing.

:

00:59:25,115 --> 00:59:28,355

Um, you mentioned, I just

remember this, you mentioned that

:

00:59:28,385 --> 00:59:28,525

the

:

00:59:28,525 --> 00:59:31,425

video I did where I was

singing uh, that song.

:

00:59:31,435 --> 00:59:32,125

Weight of the World.

:

00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:33,910

So

:

00:59:33,910 --> 00:59:34,030

I

:

00:59:34,030 --> 00:59:38,455

posted that on my YouTube,

which I have a YouTube channel.

:

00:59:39,755 --> 00:59:40,265

Um,

:

00:59:40,965 --> 00:59:42,045

and I got one comment.

:

00:59:43,175 --> 00:59:43,385

And the

:

00:59:43,385 --> 00:59:44,335

comment was,

:

00:59:44,665 --> 00:59:45,645

What is this?

:

00:59:46,265 --> 00:59:47,735

And why is it on the internet?

:

00:59:47,785 --> 00:59:52,443

And I was

:

00:59:52,443 --> 00:59:52,785

man.

:

00:59:52,885 --> 00:59:53,685

You know, like,

:

00:59:53,995 --> 00:59:55,548

Come

:

00:59:55,965 --> 00:59:56,855

I Actually,

:

00:59:56,875 --> 01:00:00,755

I, I, I just, I kind of

thought, Man, the, uh,

:

01:00:02,055 --> 01:00:02,175

The

:

01:00:02,305 --> 01:00:03,365

the balls on, on

:

01:00:03,365 --> 01:00:06,895

this person, you know, um,

:

01:00:06,925 --> 01:00:07,775

I

:

01:00:07,895 --> 01:00:08,435

I mean, it's

:

01:00:08,455 --> 01:00:10,085

literally what the Internet is

:

01:00:10,105 --> 01:00:10,615

there for.

:

01:00:10,615 --> 01:00:11,735

I'm not going to explain it.

:

01:00:11,745 --> 01:00:14,365

But anyway, I I kind of,

:

01:00:15,735 --> 01:00:17,085

it gave us all a good chuckle.

:

01:00:17,395 --> 01:00:21,235

Me and my, my brother was there

with me my wife, my sister in law.

:

01:00:21,315 --> 01:00:22,475

I was like, look at this comment.

:

01:00:22,555 --> 01:00:23,655

They were like, that's hilarious.

:

01:00:24,345 --> 01:00:24,725

You should

:

01:00:24,735 --> 01:00:25,215

tell him.

:

01:00:25,585 --> 01:00:26,905

I was like, I'm not

going to tell him shit.

:

01:00:26,915 --> 01:00:28,155

Uh, you know, good

:

01:00:28,155 --> 01:00:28,545

comment.

:

01:00:28,545 --> 01:00:29,245

I'm just going to leave it

:

01:00:29,275 --> 01:00:29,465

it there.

:

01:00:29,505 --> 01:00:30,125

Yeah, just let

:

01:00:30,125 --> 01:00:30,565

it let it

:

01:00:30,585 --> 01:00:30,965

Anyway.

:

01:00:31,065 --> 01:00:31,575

Um,

:

01:00:33,835 --> 01:00:34,885

So one comment,

:

01:00:36,615 --> 01:00:37,050

you know,

:

01:00:37,940 --> 01:00:38,080

You

:

01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:38,870

could let it get under your

:

01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:39,220

skin.

:

01:00:39,250 --> 01:00:42,190

or you could laugh about it

because it's kind of funny.

:

01:00:42,990 --> 01:00:44,650

And something I might say,

:

01:00:44,658 --> 01:00:45,966

might say,

:

01:00:45,966 --> 01:00:48,150

to be a smartass, but I'm

not that much of a smartass.

:

01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:48,884

yeah.

:

01:00:48,884 --> 01:00:50,847

so I was

:

01:00:51,070 --> 01:00:52,430

Yeah, so I was going to release a song

:

01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:53,060

every month.

:

01:00:53,900 --> 01:00:54,480

Um,

:

01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:56,260

I have nine songs.

:

01:00:56,970 --> 01:00:57,940

for North Star.

:

01:00:58,105 --> 01:00:58,465

Jason English (Host): Okay.

:

01:00:59,535 --> 01:01:06,045

Jack O'Neill: And, I feel like when

you get to, November, December with

:

01:01:06,165 --> 01:01:08,975

the world of streaming, if

it's not a holiday song,

:

01:01:09,420 --> 01:01:09,620

Jason English (Host): right?

:

01:01:09,785 --> 01:01:10,379

Do

:

01:01:10,645 --> 01:01:11,285

Jack O'Neill: like it's

:

01:01:11,567 --> 01:01:12,754

Jason English (Host): record a

:

01:01:12,754 --> 01:01:13,348

holiday

:

01:01:13,535 --> 01:01:16,495

Jack O'Neill: of, uh, you know, I'm

like, do I go record a holiday song?

:

01:01:16,495 --> 01:01:16,855

I,

:

01:01:16,911 --> 01:01:17,505

Jason English (Host): sac.

:

01:01:17,505 --> 01:01:21,662

I think that's a pretty good idea.

:

01:01:21,662 --> 01:01:22,255

Anyway,

:

01:01:22,265 --> 01:01:25,045

Jack O'Neill: about, how about,

it's Christmas in the, in the cul de

:

01:01:25,045 --> 01:01:25,585

sac?

:

01:01:26,305 --> 01:01:26,825

Um,

:

01:01:27,006 --> 01:01:27,600

Jason English (Host): is

:

01:01:28,035 --> 01:01:30,135

Jack O'Neill: that could be an,

actually, that's a pretty good idea.

:

01:01:30,135 --> 01:01:31,535

We could probably run with that anyway.

:

01:01:31,915 --> 01:01:36,305

Um, so then I was thinking, man, all

right, this is a totally long answer.

:

01:01:36,555 --> 01:01:37,325

I was thinking,

:

01:01:38,260 --> 01:01:38,670

Maybe I

:

01:01:38,670 --> 01:01:39,740

drop the final song

:

01:01:39,740 --> 01:01:40,390

in January

:

01:01:40,390 --> 01:01:40,910

25,

:

01:01:40,940 --> 01:01:41,300

That way

:

01:01:41,300 --> 01:01:42,670

I get a:

:

01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:43,780

on the album.

:

01:01:43,955 --> 01:01:44,135

album.

:

01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:45,400

Just

:

01:01:45,470 --> 01:01:46,980

try to extend the life.

:

01:01:47,350 --> 01:01:48,730

Because it's really like

:

01:01:48,910 --> 01:01:50,380

there's an expectation now

:

01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:53,200

with, with, uh, streaming, et cetera,

:

01:01:53,540 --> 01:01:54,470

Is that artists need

:

01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,510

you kind of need to continually

:

01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:01,360

Put stuff out you know gone are

the days of like here's a record

:

01:02:01,770 --> 01:02:02,260

two years

:

01:02:02,260 --> 01:02:02,560

later

:

01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:03,360

here's a record.

:

01:02:04,980 --> 01:02:09,330

Um, The business model doesn't

really support that for

:

01:02:09,610 --> 01:02:10,780

I think most

:

01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:12,990

artists, uh, or maybe

:

01:02:12,990 --> 01:02:13,510

any artists.

:

01:02:13,510 --> 01:02:14,040

I don't know

:

01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,040

I don't feel like I have

a whole lot of leverage

:

01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:18,110

where I'm at.

:

01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:22,660

And, and, uh, Especially with

releasing solo stuff that like

:

01:02:23,110 --> 01:02:23,520

I can play

:

01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:24,940

hardball with any of this stuff.

:

01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:26,090

So I'm just

:

01:02:26,100 --> 01:02:26,980

trying to kind of

:

01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:28,360

have fun

:

01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,130

with it and, and see if I can,

:

01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:31,790

um,

:

01:02:33,890 --> 01:02:34,330

You know, I

:

01:02:34,330 --> 01:02:35,380

don't know, make it work somehow.

:

01:02:35,410 --> 01:02:37,400

But, So yeah, maybe it's January.

:

01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,080

Because at this point, like, I don't

think I want to release it in November.

:

01:02:41,100 --> 01:02:41,480

Cause,

:

01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:44,500

you know.

:

01:02:44,530 --> 01:02:47,620

But then again, there's like zero rules

:

01:02:48,070 --> 01:02:48,480

at all.

:

01:02:48,510 --> 01:02:48,690

There

:

01:02:48,690 --> 01:02:49,140

are like no

:

01:02:49,140 --> 01:02:49,560

rules.

:

01:02:49,570 --> 01:02:50,930

Jason English (Host):

you know, that's good.

:

01:02:51,390 --> 01:02:51,760

Well,

:

01:02:52,070 --> 01:02:52,160

I

:

01:02:52,190 --> 01:02:52,330

Jack O'Neill: But

:

01:02:52,330 --> 01:02:52,790

how about this,

:

01:02:52,790 --> 01:02:53,780

I gotta finish two

:

01:02:53,780 --> 01:02:54,250

songs.

:

01:02:54,490 --> 01:02:57,500

So, and that hasn't happened yet.

:

01:02:57,510 --> 01:02:57,780

So,

:

01:02:58,080 --> 01:02:58,450

Jason English (Host): All right.

:

01:02:59,240 --> 01:02:59,600

Jack O'Neill: anyway.

:

01:03:01,060 --> 01:03:01,540

Jason English (Host): so,

:

01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,920

you know, we talked about your long

career, uh, as musician, you've

:

01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:07,880

talked about acting your day job.

:

01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,805

Um, You've seen a lot, you've

lived in a lot of places.

:

01:03:10,835 --> 01:03:15,545

I guess at this point in your career, what

are you most curious about like today?

:

01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:25,010

Jack O'Neill: That's a great question.

:

01:03:25,100 --> 01:03:25,920

You may, wow.

:

01:03:27,155 --> 01:03:28,445

Jason English (Host): So

the, you know, the premise of

:

01:03:28,445 --> 01:03:31,965

this, uh, the podcast I started is, uh,

you know, it's called curious goldfish.

:

01:03:31,965 --> 01:03:34,725

And the idea is it's,

it's based on Ted Lasso.

:

01:03:34,725 --> 01:03:35,105

So.

:

01:03:35,870 --> 01:03:36,930

There's two scenes, right?

:

01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,370

Uh, that kind of come together.

:

01:03:39,370 --> 01:03:42,950

There's be a goldfish, which is

all meant about, Hey, have a short

:

01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,160

memory, forget your mistake, move on.

:

01:03:45,210 --> 01:03:46,340

So that's the goldfish bit.

:

01:03:46,350 --> 01:03:49,290

That was from like the first

or second episode, I think.

:

01:03:49,890 --> 01:03:50,460

Um, I don't know.

:

01:03:50,490 --> 01:03:50,970

Did you watch

:

01:03:50,980 --> 01:03:51,250

it last

:

01:03:51,390 --> 01:03:51,690

Jack O'Neill: yep.

:

01:03:51,977 --> 01:03:53,349

Jason English (Host): Um, yeah, yeah,

:

01:03:53,430 --> 01:03:53,950

Jack O'Neill: yeah, yeah.

:

01:03:53,950 --> 01:03:54,390

totally.

:

01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:55,300

I loved it.

:

01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:55,760

loved

:

01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:55,890

it.

:

01:03:56,092 --> 01:03:57,006

Jason English (Host): my life.

:

01:03:57,006 --> 01:03:59,500

And, um, so that, that's the goldfish bit.

:

01:03:59,500 --> 01:04:04,530

And then the curious bit is

be curious, not judgmental.

:

01:04:05,025 --> 01:04:08,635

And I actually think if you look at

relationships, if you look at work, you

:

01:04:08,635 --> 01:04:12,155

know, whether it's a temp job in New

York City or whether you're a janitor

:

01:04:12,155 --> 01:04:18,205

or whether you're a banker, I don't

think people are curious enough, right?

:

01:04:18,205 --> 01:04:22,955

And so the idea for me with this

podcast is to use my curiosity

:

01:04:22,955 --> 01:04:27,255

about people like you and music to

sort of demonstrate my curiosity.

:

01:04:27,295 --> 01:04:31,815

And then I'm always curious what people

are curious about because everybody's

:

01:04:31,985 --> 01:04:35,235

got something that they're chewing on

or something that they're they want to

:

01:04:35,235 --> 01:04:40,765

uncover and For you that has lived such

a unique life, you know with music and

:

01:04:40,775 --> 01:04:43,145

acting and the military upbringing.

:

01:04:43,145 --> 01:04:48,485

I'm just again curious like What are you

curious about in your in your mid 50s?

:

01:04:50,310 --> 01:04:53,120

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, uh great

question and I would say

:

01:04:53,185 --> 01:04:57,875

Jason English (Host): That,

:

01:04:58,060 --> 01:05:00,840

Jack O'Neill: really

curious about what, what um,

:

01:05:03,860 --> 01:05:04,580

finish lines,

:

01:05:06,790 --> 01:05:07,590

like uh,

:

01:05:07,870 --> 01:05:08,660

the idea that

:

01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:11,380

it, it, it's never over

:

01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:12,890

till it,

:

01:05:12,910 --> 01:05:14,290

it's actually, it's over, you know.

:

01:05:14,404 --> 01:05:14,625

it's like,

:

01:05:16,830 --> 01:05:17,250

So there are

:

01:05:17,250 --> 01:05:18,980

some cliches that, that

:

01:05:19,300 --> 01:05:19,700

I grew

:

01:05:19,700 --> 01:05:23,850

up with, I'm sure a lot of people did,

there are no second acts in American life.

:

01:05:24,790 --> 01:05:27,779

Um, you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

:

01:05:29,250 --> 01:05:31,110

Uh, you know, shit, shit like that.

:

01:05:32,690 --> 01:05:33,130

which

:

01:05:33,140 --> 01:05:34,380

now that I am, you know,

:

01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:36,330

50 plus, I'm like, well,

:

01:05:36,330 --> 01:05:36,840

let's

:

01:05:36,890 --> 01:05:37,590

let's re

:

01:05:37,930 --> 01:05:39,370

examine those

:

01:05:40,180 --> 01:05:42,050

because, cause you know, you know, it's,

:

01:05:42,115 --> 01:05:42,165

it's,

:

01:05:43,450 --> 01:05:44,600

I'm curious about,

:

01:05:45,815 --> 01:05:46,205

You know,

:

01:05:46,465 --> 01:05:48,985

what, you know,

:

01:05:50,055 --> 01:05:50,365

what

:

01:05:50,365 --> 01:05:53,025

really is, like, the

finish line on anything?

:

01:05:53,055 --> 01:05:53,935

Like a career,

:

01:05:54,575 --> 01:05:54,904

uh,

:

01:05:54,945 --> 01:05:56,355

a relationship, uh,

:

01:05:57,654 --> 01:05:58,065

can you have

:

01:05:58,065 --> 01:05:58,815

multiple

:

01:05:59,575 --> 01:06:02,425

iterations of what your life's work is?

:

01:06:02,725 --> 01:06:04,615

What your career is,

:

01:06:04,715 --> 01:06:05,175

you know?

:

01:06:05,245 --> 01:06:05,485

Like,

:

01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:10,870

can it be a continually evolving process?

:

01:06:10,930 --> 01:06:15,250

And and by process I mean not only

the the, the day to day work you do,

:

01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:16,520

but also

:

01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:20,880

the way your mind processes information,

like just because I grew up thinking

:

01:06:21,060 --> 01:06:22,480

things should be a certain way,

:

01:06:24,070 --> 01:06:24,350

doesn't

:

01:06:24,350 --> 01:06:24,730

mean that

:

01:06:25,170 --> 01:06:27,470

they got to be set in

stone, like, can I not

:

01:06:28,430 --> 01:06:28,860

open my

:

01:06:28,860 --> 01:06:30,180

mind and change

:

01:06:31,350 --> 01:06:32,070

the way I,

:

01:06:32,340 --> 01:06:32,700

you know,

:

01:06:32,980 --> 01:06:33,800

look at a situation

:

01:06:34,310 --> 01:06:34,770

Can I not

:

01:06:34,770 --> 01:06:36,660

look at it from 180 degrees

:

01:06:37,500 --> 01:06:38,660

and see a totally different

:

01:06:39,220 --> 01:06:40,850

solution, outcome,

:

01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:42,400

source of the problem,

:

01:06:43,690 --> 01:06:44,650

whatever it might be.

:

01:06:46,790 --> 01:06:47,440

What I

:

01:06:48,779 --> 01:06:52,620

seem to realize more often is how many

people don't listen to each other.

:

01:06:52,675 --> 01:06:56,142

It's uh, you know,

:

01:06:56,500 --> 01:06:59,320

they, like, uh, you know, watching

people have a conversation.

:

01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:02,340

They're like, you guys are both talking at

the exact same time it's driving me nuts.

:

01:07:03,005 --> 01:07:05,195

And neither one of you is listening

to what the other one's saying.

:

01:07:05,195 --> 01:07:05,965

It's like this,

:

01:07:07,325 --> 01:07:09,165

um, competition to get,

:

01:07:09,295 --> 01:07:09,475

get

:

01:07:09,475 --> 01:07:10,095

the words out.

:

01:07:10,215 --> 01:07:13,175

just stop and listen for a minute.

:

01:07:14,785 --> 01:07:15,275

Um,

:

01:07:15,775 --> 01:07:16,295

but I think

:

01:07:16,295 --> 01:07:19,665

I'm, I'm really curious

about, can, can we continue to

:

01:07:20,365 --> 01:07:21,445

explore and

:

01:07:21,445 --> 01:07:22,235

evolve

:

01:07:22,275 --> 01:07:24,154

and have

:

01:07:24,154 --> 01:07:24,745

fulfilling

:

01:07:25,565 --> 01:07:26,435

life, you know,

:

01:07:26,435 --> 01:07:27,675

like is, and it's a

:

01:07:27,675 --> 01:07:29,065

very self serving thing, right?

:

01:07:29,065 --> 01:07:30,595

I mean, I'm, I'm in my fifties now,

:

01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:31,090

I'm

:

01:07:31,910 --> 01:07:34,779

I'm an artist, obviously what I

would, I'd like the answer to be

:

01:07:34,779 --> 01:07:36,800

like, yes, actually most people

:

01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:37,750

have their

:

01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:38,850

best career,

:

01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:39,320

you know,

:

01:07:39,980 --> 01:07:40,810

60, 70

:

01:07:40,810 --> 01:07:42,130

range, you know what I mean, or whatever.

:

01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:43,310

So it's a

:

01:07:43,310 --> 01:07:45,180

self serving premise, but,

:

01:07:47,090 --> 01:07:47,390

you know,

:

01:07:47,410 --> 01:07:48,670

I I just feel like

:

01:07:48,810 --> 01:07:49,740

there's always room

:

01:07:49,740 --> 01:07:51,650

to kind of, kind of

:

01:07:51,650 --> 01:07:52,279

improve

:

01:07:53,010 --> 01:07:53,529

on,

:

01:07:54,340 --> 01:07:54,490

on

:

01:07:54,490 --> 01:07:55,270

yourself,

:

01:07:55,420 --> 01:07:57,060

on your craft, on, on

:

01:07:57,060 --> 01:07:59,529

the way you, you handle relationships, uh,

:

01:08:00,830 --> 01:08:04,460

you know, give more grace, be more open,

:

01:08:04,805 --> 01:08:05,619

that includes

:

01:08:05,619 --> 01:08:06,025

a

:

01:08:06,210 --> 01:08:08,880

um, and that includes a lot of things.

:

01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:11,390

Like, I've been going

to see more live Music

:

01:08:11,759 --> 01:08:12,186

past

:

01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:16,479

in the past couple years than

I've gone to in 15 years.

:

01:08:16,740 --> 01:08:21,270

You know, and it's kind of

like, Stop saying no to shit.

:

01:08:21,870 --> 01:08:24,420

See what's what's out there

:

01:08:25,564 --> 01:08:26,604

and challenge yourself.

:

01:08:26,604 --> 01:08:29,475

Like go see something that you probably

don't think you want to go see.

:

01:08:29,515 --> 01:08:29,965

And

:

01:08:30,944 --> 01:08:31,705

Jason English (Host): Yeah, no, that's

:

01:08:31,705 --> 01:08:32,175

good.

:

01:08:32,475 --> 01:08:36,505

and I think we'll, yeah,

well, I think the challenges

:

01:08:36,505 --> 01:08:36,645

that

:

01:08:36,785 --> 01:08:38,285

Jack O'Neill: I don't know if that

answered, I don't know if that answered.

:

01:08:38,515 --> 01:08:38,725

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

:

01:08:38,725 --> 01:08:38,904

Yeah.

:

01:08:38,904 --> 01:08:41,444

And the, the, the challenges that you

were talking about earlier around, um,

:

01:08:42,175 --> 01:08:48,225

you know, alcoholism and, and that whole

thing, I feel like since you've come to

:

01:08:48,225 --> 01:08:55,774

the other side of that, you're in a great

position today to actually do bigger

:

01:08:55,774 --> 01:09:00,404

things than you may have been able to do,

you know, even in your thirties, right?

:

01:09:01,535 --> 01:09:04,505

Your mind's clear, your

heart's clear, you know.

:

01:09:05,500 --> 01:09:08,690

Like I said, you have the people

are seeing differences, right?

:

01:09:08,690 --> 01:09:11,220

And so I think you're in a great

spot to do whatever you can.

:

01:09:11,220 --> 01:09:14,149

So I think like the, the sky's

the limit there for you, you

:

01:09:14,149 --> 01:09:14,450

know,

:

01:09:14,595 --> 01:09:15,815

Jack O'Neill: Well, I appreciate that.

:

01:09:16,194 --> 01:09:16,984

I appreciate that.

:

01:09:17,770 --> 01:09:19,979

Jason English (Host): given the

journey you've been on, you know?

:

01:09:21,095 --> 01:09:21,455

Jack O'Neill: Yeah.

:

01:09:21,455 --> 01:09:21,645

I

:

01:09:21,694 --> 01:09:22,495

mean, I appreciate it.

:

01:09:22,495 --> 01:09:23,175

I think you're right.

:

01:09:23,175 --> 01:09:25,245

I mean, the way I looked at

:

01:09:26,975 --> 01:09:31,045

life 20 years ago, is very

different from how I look at it now.

:

01:09:31,115 --> 01:09:31,654

And it's,

:

01:09:32,515 --> 01:09:32,734

You know,

:

01:09:32,734 --> 01:09:33,595

not, I guess,

:

01:09:33,785 --> 01:09:34,915

20 years ago, it was more.

:

01:09:34,925 --> 01:09:35,984

I don't know, antagonistic,

:

01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:36,960

antagonistic,

:

01:09:36,984 --> 01:09:39,825

a little more us,

:

01:09:39,875 --> 01:09:43,604

us versus them, or me versus the

world, I don't know what it was,

:

01:09:44,915 --> 01:09:46,484

but now it's much more like,

:

01:09:46,593 --> 01:09:47,698

what did I expect?

:

01:09:47,698 --> 01:09:48,252

I think

:

01:09:48,252 --> 01:09:48,528

I

:

01:09:48,585 --> 01:09:49,725

yeah, well what did I expect?

:

01:09:49,725 --> 01:09:51,265

I think I was I think,

I don't know, I feel

:

01:09:51,265 --> 01:09:51,615

like I was a

:

01:09:51,615 --> 01:09:55,095

very self centered, I probably,

I mean I still am, I'm sure,

:

01:09:55,165 --> 01:09:58,265

but I think it was more so 20

years ago, that I was more like,

:

01:09:59,545 --> 01:10:02,535

I'm really coming at that at

this with me right at the center.

:

01:10:02,535 --> 01:10:03,335

of the universe

:

01:10:04,225 --> 01:10:04,525

Yeah.

:

01:10:04,525 --> 01:10:06,595

and I need to see how the world reacts

:

01:10:06,985 --> 01:10:08,385

to my wants and needs

:

01:10:08,845 --> 01:10:09,255

versus

:

01:10:09,255 --> 01:10:09,805

now.

:

01:10:09,855 --> 01:10:12,275

Just like, wow, there's there's

a lot going on out there, man.

:

01:10:12,315 --> 01:10:16,085

not A lot of people are really

spending a lot of time worrying about.

:

01:10:17,235 --> 01:10:17,555

Jason English (Host): Right.

:

01:10:17,805 --> 01:10:19,434

Jack O'Neill: what I need how I feel.

:

01:10:19,815 --> 01:10:20,085

Jason English (Host): Right.

:

01:10:20,615 --> 01:10:21,025

Jack O'Neill: it's kind of

:

01:10:21,025 --> 01:10:21,805

freeing but

:

01:10:22,260 --> 01:10:23,315

Jason English (Host): good.

:

01:10:23,315 --> 01:10:23,525

All right.

:

01:10:23,525 --> 01:10:23,605

Well,

:

01:10:23,605 --> 01:10:23,845

thanks.

:

01:10:23,845 --> 01:10:24,855

Yeah, that's a good answer.

:

01:10:24,865 --> 01:10:25,205

Yeah.

:

01:10:25,225 --> 01:10:26,615

Um, all right.

:

01:10:26,615 --> 01:10:29,675

So if you don't mind, I do

have some Jackopierce questions

:

01:10:29,695 --> 01:10:30,515

and then we can wrap up.

:

01:10:31,075 --> 01:10:31,605

Um,

:

01:10:32,005 --> 01:10:32,665

Jack O'Neill: course man

:

01:10:34,440 --> 01:10:36,240

Jason English (Host):

So back to Ted Lasso.

:

01:10:36,290 --> 01:10:36,680

Right.

:

01:10:36,700 --> 01:10:38,050

If you watch the show,

:

01:10:38,090 --> 01:10:41,540

I recently, I just started a YouTube

channel myself just to see like get

:

01:10:42,460 --> 01:10:45,920

the good content that I'm getting, not

really from me, but from the guests that

:

01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,520

I have and like, they're amazing songs

and they're amazing perspectives on life.

:

01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,200

And so like, I'm putting that out on

:

01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:51,420

my

:

01:10:51,730 --> 01:10:53,220

Jack O'Neill: Is it Curious goldfish

:

01:10:53,220 --> 01:10:55,240

YouTube?

:

01:10:55,820 --> 01:10:55,840

Is

:

01:10:56,050 --> 01:10:56,260

Jason English (Host): on YouTube.

:

01:10:56,830 --> 01:10:58,520

So Part of that is you can

:

01:10:58,630 --> 01:10:58,970

post

:

01:10:58,980 --> 01:11:01,260

polls and ask questions and things.

:

01:11:01,290 --> 01:11:02,210

Well, I did a poll.

:

01:11:03,370 --> 01:11:05,620

This is like in the last week,

you know, what's your favorite

:

01:11:05,620 --> 01:11:07,970

relationship from the Ted Lasso show?

:

01:11:07,990 --> 01:11:09,720

Is it Roy and Keely?

:

01:11:09,730 --> 01:11:11,860

Is it Ted and Rebecca?

:

01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:15,290

Is it, you know, all these

things and, and is it

:

01:11:15,290 --> 01:11:15,559

Ted

:

01:11:15,700 --> 01:11:16,720

Jack O'Neill: Oh, who won?

:

01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:20,770

Jason English (Host): you know, and,

uh, of all those options, Ted and

:

01:11:20,770 --> 01:11:23,090

coach beard, everybody loved that one.

:

01:11:23,100 --> 01:11:23,809

You know, the people that

:

01:11:23,809 --> 01:11:26,970

voted like that, that won the day and.

:

01:11:28,275 --> 01:11:33,275

Looking back at Jaco Pierce, you you and

Cary met, I think, at SMU in the late

:

01:11:33,275 --> 01:11:36,595

eighties and have had this incredible run.

:

01:11:36,605 --> 01:11:38,705

I think there was a little

bit of a pause at some point.

:

01:11:38,705 --> 01:11:43,535

But, you know, if you watch the show,

you saw the dynamic with Ted and coach.

:

01:11:43,575 --> 01:11:44,615

I was coach beard.

:

01:11:44,615 --> 01:11:47,655

It was like this working

relationship, you know, and all that.

:

01:11:47,665 --> 01:11:50,365

But then they had this personal

relationship where they would

:

01:11:50,515 --> 01:11:55,045

hold each other accountable and do

those things like, is that how off?

:

01:11:56,430 --> 01:12:00,930

How off, uh, from that is the

relationship that you didn't Cary have?

:

01:12:00,930 --> 01:12:05,030

Because I think a lot of us that have

listened to you all is the stage.

:

01:12:05,090 --> 01:12:06,880

Is that a good representation of it?

:

01:12:07,309 --> 01:12:08,360

Is it something else?

:

01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:11,309

And like, you know, what,

what's it meant to you to be

:

01:12:11,309 --> 01:12:12,840

with somebody like for so long?

:

01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:15,970

Um, I just thought that might

be a good, good parallel to

:

01:12:15,970 --> 01:12:17,050

at least try to draw from.

:

01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:17,500

I don't know.

:

01:12:17,500 --> 01:12:18,264

That's

:

01:12:18,690 --> 01:12:20,290

Jack O'Neill: That's a

great, that's awesome.

:

01:12:20,530 --> 01:12:21,100

Jason English (Host): Um,

:

01:12:21,559 --> 01:12:22,690

Jack O'Neill: so I will say,

:

01:12:24,309 --> 01:12:24,740

Cary and I

:

01:12:24,740 --> 01:12:25,880

met we were 18.

:

01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:27,400

Like, first,

:

01:12:28,900 --> 01:12:30,190

probably like the first day of school.

:

01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:31,650

We were both theater majors.

:

01:12:32,850 --> 01:12:33,870

And, um,

:

01:12:34,570 --> 01:12:36,320

when we came into the theater program,

:

01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:37,460

maybe the

:

01:12:37,460 --> 01:12:38,220

first day,

:

01:12:38,950 --> 01:12:39,300

all the

:

01:12:39,300 --> 01:12:41,530

freshmen had to do like a monologue,

:

01:12:43,050 --> 01:12:46,450

whatever, to introduce

you to the entire theater.

:

01:12:46,460 --> 01:12:46,920

So,

:

01:12:47,500 --> 01:12:51,280

all the undergrads and

the the master's students,

:

01:12:51,340 --> 01:12:51,830

everybody's.

:

01:12:51,830 --> 01:12:53,590

in the big room and they watch your work.

:

01:12:53,705 --> 01:12:54,305

Jason English (Host): That's a lot.

:

01:12:54,305 --> 01:12:54,605

Yeah.

:

01:12:55,150 --> 01:12:55,559

Jack O'Neill: And then the

:

01:12:55,559 --> 01:12:57,850

first day of actual class, our acting

:

01:12:57,960 --> 01:12:59,590

teacher comes in and it's a small class.

:

01:12:59,590 --> 01:13:02,160

There's probably like 15 of us

in this whole freshman class.

:

01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:04,740

And, uh,

:

01:13:04,850 --> 01:13:05,900

he critiques us

:

01:13:05,900 --> 01:13:06,230

all

:

01:13:07,220 --> 01:13:07,420

and he

:

01:13:07,420 --> 01:13:07,990

starts

:

01:13:08,270 --> 01:13:09,340

with Cary and he's

:

01:13:09,340 --> 01:13:10,100

like, man,

:

01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:11,190

I'll

:

01:13:11,190 --> 01:13:13,460

I'll, buy you a plane ticket right now

:

01:13:13,950 --> 01:13:14,440

to get

:

01:13:14,490 --> 01:13:15,059

out of here.

:

01:13:15,140 --> 01:13:16,120

That was the worst.

:

01:13:17,610 --> 01:13:18,870

That was the worst.

:

01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:19,950

thing I've ever seen.

:

01:13:20,700 --> 01:13:21,410

And then he goes,

:

01:13:21,780 --> 01:13:22,030

there's

:

01:13:22,030 --> 01:13:24,170

only one other student in

:

01:13:24,220 --> 01:13:24,750

this class

:

01:13:25,990 --> 01:13:26,190

who

:

01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:27,680

sucks as bad as you.

:

01:13:28,860 --> 01:13:29,220

And I

:

01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:30,730

swear, man, this is like from a movie.

:

01:13:30,815 --> 01:13:31,135

movie.

:

01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,660

Uh, Cary had a notebook,

and I, I, I barely knew him.

:

01:13:34,660 --> 01:13:36,030

I, I didn't know him for shit, you know.

:

01:13:36,420 --> 01:13:39,690

And I wrote on it, I wrote on his

notebook like, oh man, that's gonna be me.

:

01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:40,250

You know, like,

:

01:13:40,900 --> 01:13:41,140

and it

:

01:13:41,140 --> 01:13:43,980

was He was like, I'll

buy you a bus ticket.

:

01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:46,309

Cause he knew I lived in Killeen,

three hours down the road.

:

01:13:46,870 --> 01:13:48,240

I'll buy you a bus ticket.

:

01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,110

You are doing nothing but

wasting time and space in here.

:

01:13:52,170 --> 01:13:53,870

We were like, well, shit, man.

:

01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:55,140

Welcome to, uh,

:

01:13:56,410 --> 01:13:57,240

welcome to,

:

01:13:57,490 --> 01:13:58,340

you know, college.

:

01:13:58,370 --> 01:13:58,780

Anyway.

:

01:13:59,510 --> 01:13:59,890

As I got

:

01:13:59,890 --> 01:14:01,670

older in life, I learned that

:

01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:06,230

the professor's technique was very

similar to maybe go on to basic training,

:

01:14:06,260 --> 01:14:10,140

which is, I'm going to, I'm going

to kick you out of your comfort zone

:

01:14:10,140 --> 01:14:11,360

and see what you do with it.

:

01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:14,520

Anyway, but that said,

so we became buddies.

:

01:14:15,910 --> 01:14:16,620

Beginning of,

:

01:14:17,050 --> 01:14:21,670

we were 18, and I, I think we were

playing in his dorm room within

:

01:14:21,715 --> 01:14:23,337

in his dorm

:

01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:25,920

Jason English (Host): and we've

been playing together Ever since.

:

01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:27,121

Ever since.

:

01:14:27,121 --> 01:14:27,662

Jack O'Neill: No,

:

01:14:28,202 --> 01:14:29,824

Oh my god.

:

01:14:29,824 --> 01:14:35,230

The family joke at my house was I had a

:

01:14:35,545 --> 01:14:36,425

No, no.

:

01:14:37,175 --> 01:14:37,695

Oh my god.

:

01:14:38,525 --> 01:14:42,795

The family joke in my house was I

had a guitar, and I had, you know,

:

01:14:42,795 --> 01:14:45,875

guitar lessons a little bit, in high

school, but my dad would be like,

:

01:14:45,915 --> 01:14:46,405

I'd be like,

:

01:14:46,465 --> 01:14:47,875

he'd like, play me

something on the guitar.

:

01:14:48,405 --> 01:14:49,934

And I play him, like, something.

:

01:14:50,135 --> 01:14:52,665

and he'd be like, when are you going to

:

01:14:52,665 --> 01:14:52,915

be able to

:

01:14:52,915 --> 01:14:54,135

play a whole song?

:

01:14:54,535 --> 01:14:55,465

Yeah, that was the joke.

:

01:14:55,465 --> 01:14:56,675

Like, I couldn't play a whole song.

:

01:14:56,715 --> 01:14:58,905

So when I met Cary, I

couldn't play a whole song.

:

01:14:59,765 --> 01:15:00,075

And he

:

01:15:00,075 --> 01:15:01,205

was on a keyboard.

:

01:15:01,325 --> 01:15:01,815

So,

:

01:15:02,375 --> 01:15:03,434

you know, we were really,

:

01:15:04,245 --> 01:15:04,485

really,

:

01:15:04,485 --> 01:15:06,325

really exploring our options.

:

01:15:06,985 --> 01:15:10,475

Um, but, you know, our sophomore

year, man, we started, we started

:

01:15:10,475 --> 01:15:13,805

playing covers every Tuesday

night at this place called Mimi's.

:

01:15:14,127 --> 01:15:14,450

Mm.

:

01:15:14,934 --> 01:15:15,245

And I was

:

01:15:15,245 --> 01:15:17,205

like, this is fantastic.

:

01:15:17,285 --> 01:15:17,565

I'm going to

:

01:15:17,565 --> 01:15:18,885

make like a couple bucks.

:

01:15:18,925 --> 01:15:20,385

I'm going to drink for free.

:

01:15:20,385 --> 01:15:25,205

Uh, and every Tuesday night turned into

every went Tuesday night, and then every

:

01:15:25,205 --> 01:15:26,434

Wednesday night at the Rhythm Room.

:

01:15:26,455 --> 01:15:27,785

So, I mean, really, for

:

01:15:29,375 --> 01:15:30,615

a year or two,

:

01:15:31,085 --> 01:15:32,075

you know, our, our

:

01:15:32,434 --> 01:15:32,765

wood

:

01:15:32,765 --> 01:15:35,645

shop, woodshed was playing live.

:

01:15:36,665 --> 01:15:37,040

you you know,

:

01:15:37,085 --> 01:15:38,184

we would have to kill like

:

01:15:38,195 --> 01:15:39,125

four hours a time.

:

01:15:39,145 --> 01:15:39,665

You know, like it

:

01:15:39,790 --> 01:15:40,030

Jason English (Host): was

:

01:15:40,900 --> 01:15:41,880

So

:

01:15:41,900 --> 01:15:43,809

Um,

:

01:15:43,845 --> 01:15:46,405

Jack O'Neill: um, anyway, this

is a very convoluted way to

:

01:15:46,405 --> 01:15:46,905

say that,

:

01:15:46,975 --> 01:15:49,405

like, our relationship is

:

01:15:49,615 --> 01:15:52,965

probably one of the most

consistent adult relationships

:

01:15:53,715 --> 01:15:54,755

in either of our lives.

:

01:15:54,755 --> 01:15:56,780

Like, we've, we've been together.

:

01:15:56,830 --> 01:15:58,070

I love the kid,

:

01:15:58,750 --> 01:15:59,190

We go on

:

01:15:59,190 --> 01:16:00,530

the road, and, uh,

:

01:16:01,190 --> 01:16:01,559

I think the

:

01:16:01,559 --> 01:16:04,240

reason we go on the road so much

is we actually, we have a blast.

:

01:16:04,250 --> 01:16:06,820

I mean, our, we have very

similar sense of humor, like,

:

01:16:07,580 --> 01:16:10,820

I can get a, I get a laugh out

of him pretty easy, and likewise.

:

01:16:11,580 --> 01:16:14,750

which, You know, I got a, I got

an odd sense of humor, I'm sure.

:

01:16:14,750 --> 01:16:17,830

Um,

:

01:16:17,910 --> 01:16:20,115

you know, there was a period

where, where, there was a five

:

01:16:20,115 --> 01:16:21,640

year period where we did break up.

:

01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:25,590

Um, Kind of almost like, the

height of where Jackopierce was.

:

01:16:26,460 --> 01:16:27,090

Um,

:

01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,070

you know, if you look back at it, I think,

:

01:16:30,220 --> 01:16:34,200

at the time, there's just, too

much came at us way too fast,

:

01:16:35,250 --> 01:16:35,350

at

:

01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:36,240

too young an age.

:

01:16:36,309 --> 01:16:40,890

Record labels, publishing deals, a

lot of people getting into the mix.

:

01:16:41,570 --> 01:16:42,200

um,

:

01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:43,880

on the road,

:

01:16:43,890 --> 01:16:45,809

like, I don't know,

man, 200 nights a year.

:

01:16:45,809 --> 01:16:46,610

I mean, like we were,

:

01:16:46,700 --> 01:16:46,720

were,

:

01:16:48,660 --> 01:16:49,150

um,

:

01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:50,254

Jason English (Host): but you know,

:

01:16:50,254 --> 01:16:50,581

we

:

01:16:50,830 --> 01:16:52,809

Jack O'Neill: but you know,

we, we, we came back to it and,

:

01:16:53,210 --> 01:16:53,770

you know, kind of

:

01:16:53,818 --> 01:16:54,927

Jason English (Host): it nice and easy,

:

01:16:54,927 --> 01:16:55,204

but

:

01:16:55,370 --> 01:16:57,120

Jack O'Neill: took it nice and

easy, but now, man, we still go

:

01:16:57,130 --> 01:16:58,640

on the road and, man, we have,

:

01:16:58,809 --> 01:16:59,364

have a

:

01:16:59,364 --> 01:16:59,641

lot

:

01:16:59,730 --> 01:17:00,430

we have a lot of fun.

:

01:17:00,470 --> 01:17:01,110

I mean, So what

:

01:17:01,110 --> 01:17:02,140

you see on stage is

:

01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:03,450

is just a continuation

:

01:17:03,450 --> 01:17:03,840

of

:

01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:06,160

the stupidity

:

01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:07,140

backstage,

:

01:17:07,244 --> 01:17:07,906

I

:

01:17:07,906 --> 01:17:09,892

say stupidity, we

:

01:17:09,930 --> 01:17:12,320

mean, I say stupidity, but I

mean, you know, we just have fun.

:

01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:14,000

We go to, you know, we get a

:

01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:15,540

whole, go to Whole Foods a lot.

:

01:17:15,540 --> 01:17:15,970

Um,

:

01:17:17,470 --> 01:17:20,680

But yeah, I mean, he's, you know, like,

I guess I, you know, I don't, I can't,

:

01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:24,740

I'm trying to remember how beard and

coach, how far back they go, but Yeah.

:

01:17:24,770 --> 01:17:25,610

very similar thing.

:

01:17:25,610 --> 01:17:32,090

Like I, you know, he knows my worst

instincts, you know, and he celebrates

:

01:17:32,090 --> 01:17:36,550

my best instincts, you know, in the

period where I was not writing a

:

01:17:36,550 --> 01:17:38,010

lot and getting really down on it.

:

01:17:38,010 --> 01:17:39,960

He was like, man, you

got to keep going, man.

:

01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:40,890

You write great.

:

01:17:40,890 --> 01:17:43,600

stuff, you know, like just

always super supportive.

:

01:17:43,660 --> 01:17:46,309

Um, um, And I feel the same way, you know,

:

01:17:46,309 --> 01:17:53,400

like, uh, in terms of just run, run with,

you know, if you've got an idea, run with

:

01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:55,280

it, you know, just run, sky's the limit,

:

01:17:55,541 --> 01:17:56,706

Jason English (Host): Yeah, because in the

:

01:17:56,706 --> 01:17:56,997

in

:

01:17:57,180 --> 01:17:58,570

Jack O'Neill: so yeah,

I don't, I don't see it.

:

01:17:58,744 --> 01:17:59,617

Jason English (Host): Yeah, I was

:

01:17:59,617 --> 01:18:03,205

gonna say, in the, in the, show,

you could see where, like, when Ted

:

01:18:03,205 --> 01:18:06,915

was struggling with, like, his panic

attacks, or, like, there was moments,

:

01:18:06,915 --> 01:18:10,375

like, you could see, you know, again,

I know it's television, but Coach Beard

:

01:18:10,375 --> 01:18:12,805

would, like, He'd say the right thing.

:

01:18:12,815 --> 01:18:14,885

He, he'd guide him in the right way.

:

01:18:14,925 --> 01:18:17,705

Cause he was to your point,

he, he kind of knew his worst,

:

01:18:17,765 --> 01:18:20,515

behavior or tendencies, you know?

:

01:18:20,575 --> 01:18:24,655

And, uh, now that was when I'm like,

I wonder like after all these years

:

01:18:24,655 --> 01:18:27,995

or maybe even all through the years,

if, if, uh, Cary and Jack kind of

:

01:18:28,015 --> 01:18:29,845

had that similar, similar dynamic.

:

01:18:29,845 --> 01:18:30,357

Yeah.

:

01:18:30,357 --> 01:18:31,380

I think,

:

01:18:31,380 --> 01:18:31,891

Yeah.

:

01:18:32,110 --> 01:18:32,809

Jack O'Neill: I think, yeah.

:

01:18:32,809 --> 01:18:38,059

And I think It's, um, you know, I think

it's certainly as we've both gotten older,

:

01:18:38,059 --> 01:18:40,090

like it's just gotten, it's gotten better.

:

01:18:40,550 --> 01:18:42,110

That's my, I mean, that's my personal

:

01:18:42,199 --> 01:18:43,020

Jason English (Host): my approach.

:

01:18:43,020 --> 01:18:48,765

You know, there's a part of it

for sure where I'm like, man, I

:

01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:51,690

Jack O'Neill: you know, there's a part

of it for sure where I'm like, man, I

:

01:18:51,690 --> 01:18:54,100

cannot believe like, I didn't get fired.

:

01:18:55,490 --> 01:18:57,990

You know, like, I don't

know if, I don't know

:

01:18:57,990 --> 01:18:58,520

how

:

01:18:59,430 --> 01:19:03,990

I don't know how much, you know, rope

I would have given or space I would

:

01:19:03,990 --> 01:19:05,680

have given if the roles were reversed.

:

01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:09,870

You know, like, cause I really I really

pushed, I pushed the limits And, um,

:

01:19:10,011 --> 01:19:10,488

Jason English (Host): um,

:

01:19:10,488 --> 01:19:10,964

but

:

01:19:11,075 --> 01:19:13,115

Jack O'Neill: it's a testament

to to the friendship.

:

01:19:13,125 --> 01:19:13,355

that,

:

01:19:13,820 --> 01:19:14,296

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

:

01:19:14,296 --> 01:19:14,773

No,

:

01:19:14,845 --> 01:19:15,055

Jack O'Neill: know,

:

01:19:15,249 --> 01:19:15,725

Jason English (Host): great.

:

01:19:15,725 --> 01:19:16,201

Real.

:

01:19:16,525 --> 01:19:20,275

Jack O'Neill: you know, kind of knew

that that wasn't, you know, uh, the real

:

01:19:20,486 --> 01:19:21,438

feel like

:

01:19:21,755 --> 01:19:22,865

Me or whatever.

:

01:19:22,865 --> 01:19:26,665

And so some, some Good

friendship, some faith.

:

01:19:26,875 --> 01:19:27,575

And, um,

:

01:19:27,627 --> 01:19:28,580

Jason English (Host): about as

:

01:19:28,695 --> 01:19:31,235

Jack O'Neill: yeah, I mean, I, I,

I feel like and this is my just

:

01:19:31,235 --> 01:19:34,195

my opinion, but I feel like we're,

we're having about as much fun.

:

01:19:34,195 --> 01:19:35,315

as we've ever had right now.

:

01:19:35,555 --> 01:19:35,885

So.

:

01:19:38,845 --> 01:19:43,020

Jason English (Host): Um, well, this might

actually tie back to the, uh, Sobriety

:

01:19:43,070 --> 01:19:47,550

and pre sobriety, but I've always wondered

about the Mexican tune bit, you know,

:

01:19:47,620 --> 01:19:49,850

um, kind of like how that started.

:

01:19:49,850 --> 01:19:52,190

And for those of you

that, well, people that

:

01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:52,680

might watch

:

01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:59,230

this are probably huge Jackopierce fans,

but yeah, it's a kind of an improvisation,

:

01:19:59,270 --> 01:20:02,410

like improvisation on stage to a

:

01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:03,450

Jack O'Neill: yeah,

:

01:20:03,620 --> 01:20:06,260

Jason English (Host): sort of

strumming melody, whatever,

:

01:20:06,380 --> 01:20:07,260

whatever you want to call it.

:

01:20:07,260 --> 01:20:07,540

Right.

:

01:20:07,550 --> 01:20:09,110

And you call it Mexican tune, but.

:

01:20:10,595 --> 01:20:12,305

I don't do you, I don't

think you do that anymore.

:

01:20:12,305 --> 01:20:13,525

Was that something that you just did?

:

01:20:13,535 --> 01:20:16,595

Cause you were like, so hammered

that like, like, Oh, let's do this.

:

01:20:16,595 --> 01:20:18,465

Like, you know, and you I

:

01:20:18,465 --> 01:20:21,525

know you love tequila a lot and all that,

but I wouldn't, I always wonder like,

:

01:20:21,525 --> 01:20:26,275

how did it start and when you actually

did that, did you have an idea of the

:

01:20:26,275 --> 01:20:30,125

storyline that you were going to take the

audience through or did it, was it all

:

01:20:30,145 --> 01:20:35,635

kind of, uh, you know, impromptu cause

my favorite one of all was, cause I grew

:

01:20:35,635 --> 01:20:41,100

up in Missouri, there was the version

that's on the, uh, Live in the Americas,

:

01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:43,260

you know, that you released, uh, with the

:

01:20:43,260 --> 01:20:43,590

blue,

:

01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:44,180

Jack O'Neill: with the,

:

01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:44,950

Jason English (Host): jacket.

:

01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:46,440

You have a line in there that

:

01:20:46,440 --> 01:20:47,120

says, uh,

:

01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,700

what, there's one time I wore

combat boots in Missouri.

:

01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:52,350

Jack O'Neill: yes, yes, so

:

01:20:52,350 --> 01:20:53,020

that was,

:

01:20:53,150 --> 01:20:53,600

Jason English (Host): what is that

:

01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:54,000

about?

:

01:20:54,210 --> 01:20:54,760

Jack O'Neill: oh my god,

:

01:20:55,020 --> 01:20:55,620

Jason English (Host): But anyway, yeah

:

01:20:55,620 --> 01:20:55,900

So with the

:

01:20:55,900 --> 01:20:56,460

Mexican tune

:

01:20:56,490 --> 01:20:57,309

Jack O'Neill: tune oh

:

01:20:57,309 --> 01:20:57,660

man,

:

01:20:57,840 --> 01:20:59,410

Jason English (Host): give

me the synopsis on that?

:

01:20:59,410 --> 01:21:01,040

I've always, I've always

been curious about that.

:

01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:05,780

Jack O'Neill: So it basically, it

started like a lot of our songs.

:

01:21:05,820 --> 01:21:06,570

Which was,

:

01:21:07,405 --> 01:21:11,184

when we found ourselves playing

those epic four and five hour gigs,

:

01:21:12,135 --> 01:21:12,295

it

:

01:21:12,295 --> 01:21:12,655

and would

:

01:21:12,655 --> 01:21:14,755

start running out of material,

:

01:21:15,845 --> 01:21:16,775

and, you know,

:

01:21:17,135 --> 01:21:21,184

depending on the club or the

situation, the indifference

:

01:21:21,285 --> 01:21:22,135

of the crowd,

:

01:21:22,365 --> 01:21:23,015

if you will,

:

01:21:23,725 --> 01:21:24,285

a lot of

:

01:21:24,285 --> 01:21:28,105

times we wrote a lot of songs just

on the spot, that became, became

:

01:21:28,125 --> 01:21:28,765

songs,

:

01:21:28,875 --> 01:21:31,045

like Three of Us in a Boat with

something that just kind of happened

:

01:21:31,045 --> 01:21:34,915

on the spot, you know, just, you're

kind of like, well, we're, we're here.

:

01:21:35,195 --> 01:21:38,735

You know, uh, we got, we're required

to play for another 30 minutes.

:

01:21:38,745 --> 01:21:39,945

So let's just make something up.

:

01:21:40,605 --> 01:21:41,025

So Cary

:

01:21:41,075 --> 01:21:41,945

started with that.

:

01:21:42,434 --> 01:21:42,795

Yeah.

:

01:21:43,125 --> 01:21:43,545

guitar

:

01:21:43,545 --> 01:21:43,845

thing.

:

01:21:43,845 --> 01:21:45,415

It was a very Simple guitar thing.

:

01:21:45,455 --> 01:21:46,434

And, um,

:

01:21:47,505 --> 01:21:49,015

we'd gone on a trip

:

01:21:50,095 --> 01:21:51,085

down to Mexico

:

01:21:52,165 --> 01:21:54,915

and definitely there was

tequila and everything involved.

:

01:21:54,955 --> 01:21:55,275

But

:

01:21:55,684 --> 01:21:58,265

I did this thing, which I'd

been doing since high school,

:

01:21:58,265 --> 01:21:59,065

It was just kind of like

:

01:21:59,085 --> 01:22:00,505

stream of conscious, just

:

01:22:01,815 --> 01:22:03,635

kind of start making a story up.

:

01:22:03,705 --> 01:22:03,720

of it.

:

01:22:05,300 --> 01:22:05,480

And

:

01:22:05,480 --> 01:22:07,120

just, you know, kind

of just letting it go.

:

01:22:08,430 --> 01:22:10,700

So we, uh, we started trying to do that

:

01:22:11,260 --> 01:22:14,130

with some music at the end of the

night when everybody was hammered and

:

01:22:14,170 --> 01:22:16,559

maybe we, we were a little tipsy and

:

01:22:16,690 --> 01:22:17,900

we were killing time.

:

01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:19,140

and it just

:

01:22:19,140 --> 01:22:20,030

became its own thing.

:

01:22:20,030 --> 01:22:22,440

But the point of pride

with it was that it was

:

01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:23,210

different every

:

01:22:23,210 --> 01:22:23,500

time,

:

01:22:24,166 --> 01:22:25,244

Jason English (Host): time.

:

01:22:25,244 --> 01:22:26,320

Which,

:

01:22:26,470 --> 01:22:29,590

Jack O'Neill: became a

problem for me because

:

01:22:29,853 --> 01:22:30,807

be different every

:

01:22:30,807 --> 01:22:31,125

time.

:

01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:32,680

then it had to be different every time.

:

01:22:32,745 --> 01:22:35,465

So,

:

01:22:35,485 --> 01:22:37,965

Jason English (Host): it's

not a minute long, right?

:

01:22:38,235 --> 01:22:38,555

Like, it's

:

01:22:38,725 --> 01:22:40,245

Jack O'Neill: no, it's like, it

:

01:22:40,245 --> 01:22:40,985

just, and, and,

:

01:22:41,015 --> 01:22:42,865

Jason English (Host): and then this

guy and then whatever, then we're done.

:

01:22:42,905 --> 01:22:45,755

It, the one that I was listening

to like this week, I was

:

01:22:45,755 --> 01:22:47,035

like, how long is 12 minutes?

:

01:22:47,035 --> 01:22:48,215

That was one of the versions that

:

01:22:48,215 --> 01:22:48,315

I

:

01:22:48,575 --> 01:22:49,485

Jack O'Neill: are you

going to be kidding me?

:

01:22:49,515 --> 01:22:50,485

I mean, yeah, come on.

:

01:22:50,625 --> 01:22:53,235

I mean, I, I, I'm not

listening to that anyway.

:

01:22:53,615 --> 01:22:54,934

Um, but yeah,

:

01:22:54,934 --> 01:22:57,684

that was the, the, the, the secret was,

:

01:22:59,245 --> 01:22:59,755

um,

:

01:23:00,025 --> 01:23:02,085

you know, it just kind of had

to be made up on the spot.

:

01:23:02,965 --> 01:23:04,835

I do remember one time

we were in Michigan,

:

01:23:05,865 --> 01:23:08,765

and I had just finished, a lot

of times I would take books I was

:

01:23:08,765 --> 01:23:10,195

reading and riff on the books.

:

01:23:10,225 --> 01:23:11,595

You know, like, I'm not saying,

:

01:23:13,105 --> 01:23:13,515

You know, some

:

01:23:13,515 --> 01:23:14,455

of the story ideas

:

01:23:15,845 --> 01:23:16,045

were

:

01:23:16,045 --> 01:23:16,555

original.

:

01:23:16,555 --> 01:23:18,165

I mean, like, I would just riff on life.

:

01:23:18,184 --> 01:23:18,285

You

:

01:23:18,285 --> 01:23:20,815

know, I, I riffed on, uh, Nolan Ryan

:

01:23:21,675 --> 01:23:22,025

getting in a

:

01:23:22,025 --> 01:23:23,255

fight with Robin Ventura.

:

01:23:23,595 --> 01:23:23,705

I

:

01:23:23,705 --> 01:23:24,485

still remember that one.

:

01:23:24,515 --> 01:23:25,115

That was a class.

:

01:23:25,135 --> 01:23:27,235

I mean, like, that one

came together like, ah,

:

01:23:28,795 --> 01:23:29,205

plenty of

:

01:23:29,205 --> 01:23:30,135

them were terrible.

:

01:23:30,585 --> 01:23:31,125

Um,

:

01:23:31,705 --> 01:23:32,105

but like

:

01:23:32,105 --> 01:23:34,645

the one from that life from

America is I'd been reading.

:

01:23:35,545 --> 01:23:38,905

I can't remember the name of the book,

but it was about um, crazy horse.

:

01:23:38,905 --> 01:23:41,184

and Custer in the Battle

of Little Bighorn.

:

01:23:41,359 --> 01:23:41,770

Jason English (Host): They

:

01:23:41,770 --> 01:23:42,593

kick Custer.

:

01:23:42,593 --> 01:23:45,455

They kick Custer's ass sideways, right?

:

01:23:45,740 --> 01:23:47,980

Jack O'Neill: yeah, you know, I

mean, like, come on, man, whatever,

:

01:23:47,990 --> 01:23:50,250

you know, like History nerd stuff.

:

01:23:50,570 --> 01:23:51,510

And then, um,

:

01:23:53,460 --> 01:23:57,120

you know, we obviously stopped doing it

and, people still ask for it a lot, but.

:

01:23:59,280 --> 01:23:59,620

yeah, it's,

:

01:23:59,770 --> 01:24:01,740

it's it takes a level of

:

01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:03,850

confidence in

:

01:24:04,100 --> 01:24:04,890

chutzpah.

:

01:24:04,900 --> 01:24:08,090

if you will, That I just, I really don't.

:

01:24:08,220 --> 01:24:08,240

Yeah.

:

01:24:08,370 --> 01:24:08,510

Jason English (Host): I

:

01:24:09,545 --> 01:24:12,035

Jack O'Neill: I mean, I can't even

listen to the, to the recorded versions

:

01:24:12,035 --> 01:24:13,305

Cause they make me cringe a little bit.

:

01:24:13,345 --> 01:24:13,995

Although,

:

01:24:15,315 --> 01:24:18,905

I did listen to the, that one

recently because I was like, all

:

01:24:18,905 --> 01:24:20,434

right, maybe, what if we do it live?

:

01:24:20,434 --> 01:24:22,825

Somebody was like, hey man,

when you do it live now,

:

01:24:23,645 --> 01:24:23,925

I think

:

01:24:23,945 --> 01:24:25,585

people expect the recorded version.

:

01:24:25,605 --> 01:24:27,595

So you're confused.

:

01:24:27,615 --> 01:24:29,635

cause we've done it a

couple of times recently.

:

01:24:29,990 --> 01:24:30,140

Jason English (Host): you,

:

01:24:30,140 --> 01:24:30,390

have?

:

01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:31,650

Jack O'Neill: Didn't go over so great.

:

01:24:31,650 --> 01:24:33,000

I didn't think it went over so great.

:

01:24:33,059 --> 01:24:35,000

And somebody's like, dude,

you got to do the record.

:

01:24:35,010 --> 01:24:35,630

They don't know.

:

01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:36,820

Nobody knows what this is.

:

01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:40,130

Then I was like, maybe it just

needs to live in the past and, uh,

:

01:24:40,140 --> 01:24:40,480

Jason English (Host): yeah.

:

01:24:40,870 --> 01:24:41,650

Well, cause you, you guys

:

01:24:41,660 --> 01:24:42,230

Jack O'Neill: and be what it

:

01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:43,070

Jason English (Host): shows, right?

:

01:24:43,170 --> 01:24:48,280

Uh, and thank you, by the way, I think,

uh, I think it was the Sweetwater

:

01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:49,940

one I requested, Capable Girl.

:

01:24:50,010 --> 01:24:52,660

And, um, you guys played

it, so thank you for that.

:

01:24:52,670 --> 01:24:52,910

But,

:

01:24:52,910 --> 01:24:53,290

uh,

:

01:24:53,934 --> 01:24:54,335

I

:

01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:55,500

Jack O'Neill: Thanks for requesting it.

:

01:24:55,725 --> 01:24:57,835

Jason English (Host): tune,

but I didn't think you did it.

:

01:24:57,835 --> 01:25:01,305

Cause you're, you know, I thought that was

like a, just a bit from your past where,

:

01:25:01,335 --> 01:25:04,365

you know, alcohol sort of was the, was

:

01:25:04,365 --> 01:25:04,755

the thing.

:

01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:05,170

Jack O'Neill: Definitely.

:

01:25:05,390 --> 01:25:07,150

alcohol alcohol would help.

:

01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:08,230

Yeah.

:

01:25:08,690 --> 01:25:09,140

Alcohol

:

01:25:09,140 --> 01:25:10,990

definitely helps you loosen up.

:

01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:13,140

I'm way too, uh,

:

01:25:15,340 --> 01:25:16,610

I would say self conscious, but

:

01:25:16,710 --> 01:25:19,590

more like, eh, a little

too straight laced now.

:

01:25:19,879 --> 01:25:20,562

Jason English (Host): now.

:

01:25:20,562 --> 01:25:21,245

Yeah.

:

01:25:21,450 --> 01:25:21,880

Jack O'Neill: I don't know.

:

01:25:21,900 --> 01:25:22,460

We'll see.

:

01:25:22,460 --> 01:25:23,410

I don't know.

:

01:25:24,805 --> 01:25:25,485

Jason English (Host): It's all good.

:

01:25:25,565 --> 01:25:26,155

Uh, well, thanks.

:

01:25:26,165 --> 01:25:26,585

So thanks.

:

01:25:26,585 --> 01:25:27,165

Thanks for that.

:

01:25:27,195 --> 01:25:28,975

I've always wanted to

ask you that forever.

:

01:25:28,975 --> 01:25:31,055

So thank you for that Uh, then one last

:

01:25:31,055 --> 01:25:31,485

question, I

:

01:25:31,485 --> 01:25:38,565

guess In all the Jackopierce sort of

catalog What's the the song or the

:

01:25:38,575 --> 01:25:44,915

album that You think like jack o'neill

is like, okay, that's that I want that

:

01:25:44,925 --> 01:25:50,335

to be not my legacy because you've got

30 more years in you 25 more years in

:

01:25:50,335 --> 01:25:55,385

you, whatever whatever that is, but

It's the best representation of like

:

01:25:55,395 --> 01:26:00,434

you Cary and what Jackopierce sort

of means, you know, to you guys, like

:

01:26:00,434 --> 01:26:04,605

what, what would come to mind that, you

know, if people listen to it or they

:

01:26:04,605 --> 01:26:07,765

see you perform and they're like, okay,

like that's, that's important to Jack.

:

01:26:11,260 --> 01:26:12,760

Jack O'Neill: That's a good,

That's a great question.

:

01:26:12,830 --> 01:26:14,100

I would say

:

01:26:18,890 --> 01:26:19,320

That's a great

:

01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:19,559

question.

:

01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:21,040

Um, I think, man,

:

01:26:23,290 --> 01:26:24,960

I would be between two.

:

01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:26,720

I think it would be the first one.

:

01:26:28,590 --> 01:26:29,940

Maybe with, um,

:

01:26:30,300 --> 01:26:30,699

I'd

:

01:26:31,055 --> 01:26:32,505

shit, I'd have to look up the title.

:

01:26:32,691 --> 01:26:33,089

Jason English (Host): title.

:

01:26:33,089 --> 01:26:33,488

That

:

01:26:33,488 --> 01:26:33,886

one,

:

01:26:33,925 --> 01:26:36,605

Jack O'Neill: That one, and the one we did

with T Bone Burnett, because it was T Bone

:

01:26:36,675 --> 01:26:38,268

Jason English (Host):

Burnet, because it was

:

01:26:38,268 --> 01:26:38,666

Thibaut

:

01:26:38,865 --> 01:26:43,205

Jack O'Neill: and, And the players

on that record, Ben Montench, um,

:

01:26:43,469 --> 01:26:44,132

um,

:

01:26:44,132 --> 01:26:44,825

um, um,

:

01:26:44,835 --> 01:26:46,389

Yeah, bringing on

:

01:26:46,625 --> 01:26:47,855

yeah, bringing on the weather.

:

01:26:47,902 --> 01:26:49,415

Danny Fongheiser

:

01:26:49,725 --> 01:26:51,684

uh, Danny Fongheiser on the drums,

:

01:26:51,775 --> 01:26:52,575

Jerry Sheff

:

01:26:52,575 --> 01:26:53,125

on bass.

:

01:26:53,135 --> 01:26:55,155

Scarlett Rivera played Fiddle on that.

:

01:26:55,165 --> 01:26:55,445

She

:

01:26:55,595 --> 01:26:56,175

played on

:

01:26:56,225 --> 01:26:57,175

Bob Dylan records.

:

01:26:57,205 --> 01:26:58,865

I mean, just a real,

:

01:26:59,505 --> 01:27:01,525

and it was T Bone Burnett, who I just,

:

01:27:03,205 --> 01:27:03,684

that was just

:

01:27:03,684 --> 01:27:07,655

such a great experience, And, and

the, the juxtaposition between that

:

01:27:07,855 --> 01:27:10,825

album making experience,

our first one in LA

:

01:27:10,845 --> 01:27:14,415

with T Bone Burnett, and then the

second record we made where we made it,

:

01:27:14,635 --> 01:27:18,255

and then we turned it in, the label

was like, meh, and it became like the

:

01:27:18,255 --> 01:27:20,095

whole, that whole label experience.

:

01:27:20,745 --> 01:27:21,085

Like, well,

:

01:27:21,095 --> 01:27:23,275

you need to rerecord a lot of this.

:

01:27:23,275 --> 01:27:24,155

and we're going to bring in

:

01:27:24,155 --> 01:27:24,955

somebody else.

:

01:27:24,965 --> 01:27:24,995

And

:

01:27:24,995 --> 01:27:26,175

then we're bringing this other guy.

:

01:27:27,065 --> 01:27:27,385

Yeah.

:

01:27:27,425 --> 01:27:27,705

Yeah.

:

01:27:27,945 --> 01:27:28,215

Yeah.

:

01:27:29,255 --> 01:27:29,945

Yeah, Finest

:

01:27:29,945 --> 01:27:30,835

hour, which was

:

01:27:31,415 --> 01:27:31,845

just, it

:

01:27:31,845 --> 01:27:32,635

just, wasn't as

:

01:27:34,265 --> 01:27:34,715

pure of an

:

01:27:34,715 --> 01:27:35,245

experience.

:

01:27:35,245 --> 01:27:38,795

I mean, the T Bone experience

just felt like so, like, it's

:

01:27:38,795 --> 01:27:40,434

like, it was like the perfect,

:

01:27:42,105 --> 01:27:43,715

the perfect, like, a record

:

01:27:44,305 --> 01:27:45,405

making experience.

:

01:27:45,405 --> 01:27:46,075

You know, like,

:

01:27:46,945 --> 01:27:47,865

Killer spot,

:

01:27:47,945 --> 01:27:49,655

Uh,

:

01:27:49,795 --> 01:27:51,175

players, you know, just,

:

01:27:52,085 --> 01:27:52,535

um,

:

01:27:53,045 --> 01:27:53,205

but

:

01:27:53,205 --> 01:27:56,285

anyway, bring it on the weather

and What's the white one?

:

01:27:56,285 --> 01:27:56,585

I guess.

:

01:27:56,585 --> 01:27:57,055

the white one,

:

01:27:57,245 --> 01:27:57,815

Jason English (Host): I think it's just,

:

01:27:58,275 --> 01:28:00,445

Jack O'Neill: But like

that pure, that super pure.

:

01:28:01,395 --> 01:28:02,655

yeah, just the pure.

:

01:28:02,665 --> 01:28:04,184

Jason English (Host): I don't, I don't

think it's, I don't think there's

:

01:28:04,184 --> 01:28:04,545

a title

:

01:28:04,565 --> 01:28:05,684

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, just, yeah.

:

01:28:06,035 --> 01:28:07,905

Jason English (Host): Yeah, Yeah.

:

01:28:07,985 --> 01:28:08,465

Jack O'Neill: And I think it's

:

01:28:08,785 --> 01:28:09,955

pretty much pure acoustic.

:

01:28:09,955 --> 01:28:10,865

It's just me and Cary.

:

01:28:10,995 --> 01:28:11,955

Jason English (Host): Uh, all right, cool.

:

01:28:11,955 --> 01:28:16,575

Well, again, Jack, I take away way

too much of your time, but, uh,

:

01:28:17,165 --> 01:28:17,415

Like I

:

01:28:17,415 --> 01:28:17,745

said,

:

01:28:17,755 --> 01:28:22,265

it's an honor and I really appreciate

the candor and uh, congrats on all the,

:

01:28:22,345 --> 01:28:24,495

all the activity and, and everything.

:

01:28:24,495 --> 01:28:28,255

And if, if I can get a little bit more

greedy, if you wouldn't mind playing this

:

01:28:28,255 --> 01:28:30,195

longer too, it would just mean everything.

:

01:28:30,205 --> 01:28:31,005

So, uh,

:

01:28:31,065 --> 01:28:31,365

can we do

:

01:28:31,470 --> 01:28:32,860

Jack O'Neill: Oh, that's weird.

:

01:28:32,860 --> 01:28:33,990

I happen to have a guitar right

:

01:28:33,990 --> 01:28:34,300

here.

:

01:29:16,270 --> 01:29:19,122

Downward Lake calls anyway.

:

01:29:19,122 --> 01:29:20,702

American country.

:

01:29:20,702 --> 01:29:29,402

What's left of a hurricane

Falls on a small southern town.

:

01:29:29,402 --> 01:29:38,100

We stand our ground beneath

the trees And lie in the

:

01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:42,080

lake.

:

01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:49,780

I was a damn good son And

I did what I could to be.

:

01:29:49,850 --> 01:29:59,184

Everything you wasted me, all them

words I spoke, I can know that to

:

01:29:59,184 --> 01:30:04,517

come from the deep in heart of me.

:

01:30:04,517 --> 01:30:15,184

And you can cover yourself in the night

like a glory, ain't never gonna set you

:

01:30:15,184 --> 01:30:19,850

free, ain't never gonna set you free.

:

01:30:23,150 --> 01:30:26,900

In good

:

01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:45,035

American country, the kid I was when

I was a maid, I come home dirty and

:

01:30:45,035 --> 01:30:52,335

proud, I'm brilliant in scrawls,

adorable and strange, I was a damn

:

01:30:52,335 --> 01:31:02,010

good son and I did what I could

to be everything you used to be.

:

01:31:54,635 --> 01:31:55,575

Jason English (Host):

Thank you so much, Jack.

:

01:31:55,585 --> 01:31:56,375

That was amazing.

:

01:32:13,655 --> 01:32:20,885

Quick step to Texas in a driving wind,

seen the man on the moon was crying too,

:

01:32:21,895 --> 01:32:24,475

as he left the Kansas wheat fields in May.

:

01:32:25,550 --> 01:32:30,110

For Dallas, all in a dream.

:

01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:38,460

He'd been born twenty odd years ago today,

But he didn't believe he'd yet been alive.

:

01:32:39,630 --> 01:32:46,610

So he kept the night in Dallas, And when

he woke, He made a push for the sun.

:

01:32:46,655 --> 01:33:05,295

Santa Fe, hey, hey, hey, he might

explain, that I'm, about in my time,

:

01:33:07,805 --> 01:33:19,775

I'll hitch my wagon up to another

star, and I'm taking a ride.

:

01:33:22,135 --> 01:33:34,559

I'm in my own sweet town, who

knows where I'll be a day from now.

:

01:33:34,559 --> 01:33:42,015

Texas one time had been

a young man's dream,

:

01:33:47,655 --> 01:33:53,545

but joy ran in all ebony

streams, but the dream's cashed.

:

01:33:53,545 --> 01:34:01,895

He walked in and made men gold,

and the rivers have done run dry.

:

01:34:01,895 --> 01:34:09,825

Well, Steve Amarello,

:

01:34:13,405 --> 01:34:18,875

he had a vision of an Indian

girl and a cabin in the snow.

:

01:34:19,745 --> 01:34:22,325

Perhaps Santa Fe will be kinder.

:

01:34:25,315 --> 01:34:34,495

In Kansas ever was But your dreams

come clean Over miles of road I've

:

01:34:34,495 --> 01:34:46,715

come to think of it That Tucson don't

seem too much further to go Cause

:

01:34:48,995 --> 01:35:01,450

I, I, I I'm biding my time I'm

I'll hitch my wagon up to another

:

01:35:13,300 --> 01:35:13,650

sweet

:

01:35:16,230 --> 01:35:20,530

who knows where I'll be now.

:

01:35:48,762 --> 01:35:49,702

Jason English (Host):

I really appreciate it.

:

01:35:49,762 --> 01:35:50,692

Thanks for the time for the

:

01:35:50,692 --> 01:35:51,482

conversation.

:

01:35:51,482 --> 01:35:52,362

It's a

:

01:35:52,362 --> 01:35:52,802

pleasure.

:

01:35:52,947 --> 01:35:53,397

Jack O'Neill: thank you,

:

01:35:53,541 --> 01:35:54,291

Jason English (Host): just an honor, man.

:

01:35:54,291 --> 01:35:56,062

And good luck the rest of

the year with everything.

:

01:35:56,062 --> 01:35:57,942

And hope to see you in Atlanta soon.

:

01:35:59,416 --> 01:36:00,057

Jack O'Neill: It's a deal, man.

:

01:36:00,057 --> 01:36:00,787

Thanks for everything.

:

01:36:01,121 --> 01:36:01,532

Jason English (Host): All right.

:

01:36:01,682 --> 01:36:02,082

Cheers.

:

01:36:02,647 --> 01:36:03,007

Jack O'Neill: Alright,

:

01:36:03,137 --> 01:36:03,527

Cheers.

:

01:36:11,802 --> 01:36:13,362

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

:

01:36:13,362 --> 01:36:15,152

episode of Curious Goldfish.

:

01:36:15,592 --> 01:36:18,871

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

:

01:36:19,452 --> 01:36:22,072

Also tell your music loving

friends about us too.

:

01:36:22,822 --> 01:36:24,922

Until next time, stay curious.

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About the Podcast

Curious Goldfish
A Community Where Inquisitiveness and Music Come Together. Inspired by the Mindset of Ted Lasso.
Launching in 2024, the Curious Goldfish Brand is inspired by two episodes from the First Season of the Apple TV+ Series Ted Lasso.

The “Goldfish” reference is about the importance of not dwelling on mistakes in life. In an early episode, Ted Lasso, the series’ namesake asks one of his players – after they were badly beaten in a play during training – what the happiest animal on earth is. The answer: A Goldfish, because it has a 10-second memory. Lasso encourages the player to forget the mistake and to not let it hinder his mindset. In other words, to “Be a Goldfish.” The “Curious” reference is born from another Season 1 episode where Ted finds himself in a dart match at a local Pub with a ruthless Football Club Owner. Lasso references a quote from Walt Whitman to “Be Curious, Not Judgmental.”

So “Being a Goldfish” is a great start, but curiosity is an undervalued trait in today’s world. We don’t ask enough questions; we don’t inquire enough about each other and about life. So I want people to be “Curious Goldfish.”

The initial premise of the podcast will center around my curiosity about music. I can’t sing. I don’t play a musical instrument, but I am inspired by artists who are vulnerable enough to put their thoughts down and then share them with the entire world. I’m curious about the songwriting process; I’m curious about a musician’s journey; I’m curious about the business of music; I’m curious about who or what inspires a sad song, a love song - and everything in between.

Though the initial premise is music, we will likely spend time discussing and highlighting all-things Ted Lasso. In its three seasons, it inspired the host in so many ways (work, personal, relationships etc).

The musical focus of the Curious Goldfish Podcast will center around up-and-coming artists primarily in rock, roots, folk, Country and Americana genres. Not every aspiring musician will earn $100 million from Spotify streaming like Taylor Swift. Our goal is to shine a light on those artists who have as few as 100 monthly listeners to those with more than 100,000. Their stories deserve to be heard because your music can inspire, and it’s time you had a chance to share them.
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About your host

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Jason English

Tech Exec by Day, Music Lover Day and Night. Former Journalist who is trying to be a middle-aged William Miller from the Movie Almost Famous. Also, Ted Lasso changed his life...so there's that.