A Chat with Eliot Bronson Part 1

Eliot Bronson: 00:00:09

My songs teach me, you know, I get to see

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myself through my own songs.

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They come back to me.

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It's a way of getting outside of yourself.

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It's a way of, like, I think I might've

said it at the show, but it's a, it's

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a way of telling myself something

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with,

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in a, if it's interesting enough

or more beautiful enough that I

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may actually pay attention to it.

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Cause you know, we all have

things we know we should do or

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advice that we have for ourselves.

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We have, we all have our own wisdom.

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But,

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How often do we listen to ourselves?

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But if you put it into something like

a song, or a painting, or a poem,

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or

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Hell, a good dinner.

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You know, you make something out of it.

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Um, then you get to really

appreciate it and see it.

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And then it, and then it changes you.

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And hopefully, maybe

changes other people too

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

curious goldfish, a podcast community

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where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

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with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find curious goldfish and all the

major podcast and social media platforms.

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And of course, we have all of

our content on our website.

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Curious goldfish.

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com.

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Through an incredible run now at more

than 160 consecutive weeks, singing

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on a Facebook live stream, Atlanta

based singer songwriter Eliot Bronson

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unwittingly built a global community

of active, loyal listeners who eagerly

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anticipated his weekly set list and to

find a way to connect with the artist.

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In doing so, not only was a connection

made with faceless listeners, sending

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emoji shoutouts and quick hellos

in the comment section, but Eliot

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also became a master of cover songs.

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1970s folk rock?

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Sure.

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John Prine's greatest hits?

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Easy.

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He even tackled an anthem from

one of the all time greats and

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has somehow made it his own.

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Eliot Bronson: So if your body covers

me, can you, my darling, can you picture

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this dream, if you will, of a courtyard?

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Oceans of violence in bloom,

animals strike curious poses.

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They feel the heat, the

heat between me and you.

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How can you just leave me standing?

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Alone in a world that's so cold.

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Maybe I'm just too demanding.

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Maybe I'm just like my

father, I'm too bold.

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Maybe you're just like my mother.

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She's never satisfied.

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Why do we scream at each other?

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This is what it sounds

like when doves cry.

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Jason English (Host): Hearing Prince's

When Doves Cry by a Middle Aged Man.

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playing acoustic guitar in a listening

room in Dahlonega, Georgia on a cold

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Saturday night wasn't on my 2024

bucket list, but I'm not complaining.

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But there's so much more

to Eliot than covers.

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The guy should teach a masterclass

on the craft of songwriting.

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Lesson one could be

titled, hold up a mirror.

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Because each and every song

he's written and recorded shows

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the imperfections defects.

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Yes, but also the smiles and sincere

eyes of a life anchored in music and

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this conversation, which is part one

of a two part series for the podcast.

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We cover a wide range of topics, including

the impact of Eliot's religious upbringing

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on his music, the challenges and rewards

of Eliot's career, the surprising benefits

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of that live streaming during the pandemic

and reflections on his artistic journey.

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The episode concludes with an acoustic

version of what I've done with my life.

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The last track on his latest

album, released this year,

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called Talking to Myself.

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In all those live streams through

the years, it likely felt like Eliot

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was talking and singing to himself.

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But thank goodness for all of

us who have ears to listen,

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because his words aren't cheap.

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They are authentically layered on top

of intricate guitar chords and picking.

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Sure, he can do a cover.

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And sure, he can make

a Prince song his own.

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But Eliot's magic is in the mirror

he holds up through his songs.

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And we were lucky enough to peek

over his shoulder and get a listen.

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Eliot Bronson.

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Let's dive in.

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Eliot Thanks so much for your time.

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Um, so you've got a lot

going on in: 2024

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I guess my first question is what's

been more exciting for you releasing

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the new album or swimming with manatees?

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Eliot Bronson: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

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Uh, well, um.

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Pretty

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That's a pretty good question.

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Uh, I'm going to go with the record

just because I think I may swim with

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the manatees again one day, but I'm

never going to make this record again.

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Jason English (Host):

Oh, that's a good answer.

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All right.

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That's good.

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The manatees thing, how did that come up?

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Eliot Bronson: Well, my girlfriend,

um, she's had this sort of

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lifelong obsession with manatees.

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Like she, when she was in high school or

something or no, like elementary, she just

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kind of like, uh, took to them or kind of

started writing all her papers about them.

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Or, and so as long as we've been together,

she's been like the last four years,

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she's been like, you know, we got to

take a trip to swim with the manatees.

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And I thought, well, you know,

if I don't do that, you know,

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what kind of boyfriend am I?

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Jason English (Host): That's true.

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That's a good move.

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Good move.

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Eliot Bronson: So we did it.

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It was, it was, it was really wild.

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Recommended.

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Jason English (Host): All right.

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We'll get it.

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Well, I saw that on your, uh, you know,

on social media, and I was like, that,

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that looks pretty, pretty fun, so, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Uh, but you've got a lot going on.

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We're, we'll, I'm, I'm gonna talk

about the album quite a bit and some

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of the songs and, and whatnot, but, uh,

just a few other things before that.

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I'm just, you know, again,

curious about, right?

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Yeah.

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Eliot Bronson: like a goldfish.

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Jason English (Host): like Yeah, exactly.

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Curious goldfish.

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what's funny about.

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researching for this

and preparing for this.

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And I tried to watch a

few older interviews.

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You look great today, by the way,

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Eliot Bronson: thanks.

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How bad did I

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Jason English (Host): well, better

than there's one, there's one,

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then, uh, it looked like you were

in New York city or something.

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And, uh, you didn't even look

like you, but anyway, that's

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Eliot Bronson: This interview is over.

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Jason English (Host): No, you look great.

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Um, no, but I've looked, watching

some interviews and, uh, what's

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interesting is the whole Pentecostal.

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I grew

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up in the Midwest, in Missouri, and, uh,

the headquarters for the Assemblies of

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God Church are in Springfield, Missouri.

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Missouri.

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I attended an Assemblies

of God Church growing

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Eliot Bronson: So when

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Jason English (Host): So when you

said that, and the fact that like,

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uh, I think it was your grandparents?

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Yeah.

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Your, your grand, your, your granddad,

uh, and then your dad a little bit, right?

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Yeah, a little yeah, yeah.

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Informally.

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Yeah.

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No, I saw, it's, it's just really

interesting because, I can see where

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some of the musical inspiration came

from because of all the Christian

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denominations that I have attended,

that one's like very musical.

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Eliot Bronson: Yes, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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There was music every Sunday and, you

know, not, not just sort of like that

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stiff, um, like, uh, singing hymns,

um, which can be beautiful, but, you

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know, guitars, tambourines, pianos.

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Jason English (Host): The whole thing.

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Yeah.

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I just,

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is kind of

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I remember growing up watching,

uh, this is kind of embarrassing,

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but It is what it is.

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I don't have any regrets, but

you know, uh, my parents would

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watch like Jimmy Swaggert, right?

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Yeah.

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And he, he could play the piano.

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And like you said, it was,

it was this whole thing.

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And it was actually really, really good in

a lot of ways from a musical standpoint.

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But, uh, I just was, it was just

curious, like how much of an imprint

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did that make on you outside of music?

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I

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Eliot Bronson: Well, I

think it made a big imprint.

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It's always hard to tell, you know,

cause you'd only know your life.

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But, um,

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but

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obviously the music was a big thing.

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And, and church was like my, I went to

the church, the physical church that

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my dad grew up in inside of lived in.

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Um, so when I say we grew up in the church

and they really grew up in, in the church.

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And, um, it was a.

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Like, almost across the street,

around the corner from the

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house where my mom grew up in.

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And they met through

that church community.

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And so the community was such

a big part of everyone's life.

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And it was Baltimore City, but,

um, it was more like a small town.

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This little neighborhood

called Brooklyn, oddly.

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Um, and so my childhood was in that

neighborhood, in that house, and

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in that church around the corner.

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And so, yeah, I think

it had a deep influence.

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Um, You know, musically, I mean, in

good ways and bad ways, theologically,

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um, but I think it, it always, it kept

me interested in the big questions.

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I think, I think it

primed me for that anyway.

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I don't know

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Jason English (Host): what memories do

you have that are positive from that,

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Eliot Bronson: from that experience.

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Well, I mean, the music

of course was constant.

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My mom always reminds me.

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Although my memory on

this is pretty, you know,

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uh,

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hazy that, uh, the first time I sang in

public was, uh, in front of the church

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singing a song called, I am a promise.

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I am a possibility.

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Jason English (Host): I am a promise.

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I am a possibility.

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Eliot Bronson: one.

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Yeah, that's the one.

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So I got my first taste of

performance, uh, there too.

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So, um, yeah, that's, that's

one memory, but there were

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so many like that, you know,

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Jason English (Host): know, I haven't

listened to your songs 10 times over

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with all the albums that you've done.

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Faith.

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the idea of faith and the topic of faith

doesn't really, it's there, but it's

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really, it's, it's more subtle, right?

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Is that intentional?

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Is that just, um,

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Eliot Bronson: I suppose so.

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I mean, I'm, my spirituality is

pretty personal and it certainly

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informs how I look at the world

and how I move through the world.

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But, um, I'm not interested in

preaching anything to anyone at all.

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Um,

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I've got more questions than answers.

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That makes sense.

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And also, you know, um, I think

the best songs are songs that Open

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you up and connect us to each other

and when you get a political song

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or a religious overtly religious

song Anything that divides the room

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Jason English (Host): um,

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Eliot Bronson: It's doing the

opposite of what I'm trying to do.

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Anyway,

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Jason English (Host): Which is

bring people together and have

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people actually like pay attention,

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Eliot Bronson: right, right.

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I mean it's it's it's Well, to

be honest, a lot of it's for me.

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I mean, I'm writing songs to heal

myself and make myself feel better.

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But I have discovered

that if you do that with

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Jason English (Host): Right.

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Eliot Bronson: and honesty and you work at

it, then you tell your story in such a way

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that you tell other people's stories too.

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It's for others, but I won't pretend

that it isn't selfish as well.

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But I think it's a type of selfishness.

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That's a healthy type of

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selfishness.

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Jason English (Host): selfishness That's

good, in your most recent album you

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found a way to incorporate "Philistine"

I that must have been from Sunday School,

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or Vacaction Bible School picked up

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Eliot Bronson: I do this thing

that I probably picked up from

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Dylan, which is, you know, um,

That's a song that's in my song.

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Are you still mean and if you look at a

lot of those songs like Um, I don't know

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like tangled up in blue or something like

that Every time he gets to the line right

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before tangled up in blue, you know I I

bent down to tie the laces of my shoes

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Tangled up in blue, you know And so each

time it's like the punch is to set up

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Jason English (Host): It's a set up.

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Eliot Bronson: and he's not the only

writer who did that and he didn't invent

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It but it's a it's a type of songwriting

and and I I enjoy doing that myself.

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So if you listen to that song,

you'll notice that I set up, are

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you still mean a myriad of ways,

and maybe I just ran out of rhymes.

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I needed something interesting.

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Jason English (Host):

Philistine's a good play though.

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Like it's,

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Eliot Bronson: Well, it made sense.

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It made sense for the, for the song too.

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And the character I'm

describing in the song.

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I mean, but I wasn't necessarily going

for a biblical reference, although

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it works on that level maybe too,

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Jason English (Host): Yeah, definitely.

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Eliot Bronson: but I also like, you know,

I just think one of the things that's

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very interesting in songwriting is.

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Uh,

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Well, one of the things that's

important in songwriting is

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holding the listener's attention.

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And one of the interesting ways

of doing that is to, play with

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people's expectations by giving them

a rhyme that they haven't heard.

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This is craft and technical, you know,

know how, but it's, it, if you, if you

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look again at someone like Dylan or any

of the great writers, you know, they're

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not going to give you a rhyme, every

line that you can expect, you know?

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Um, so you're, you're, when you hear,

when you hear, when you know a rhyme

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is coming, your ear gets primed for it.

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And then when something comes that

rhymes, but it isn't anything on your.

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you know, map,

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That's satisfying, in

a way, to the listener.

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Jason English (Host):

And to you, probably.

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Eliot Bronson: Well, yeah, absolutely.

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If it isn't satisfying to

me, then it's not going to be

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satisfying to the listener.

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That's a bar, right?

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If I don't like it, um, I mean,

there are those rare cases where

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I write something and I'm like, I

don't know if it's good, and then

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other people convince me that it is.

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But, you know, at some point, I

had to like what I was making.

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Otherwise, I wouldn't have finished it.

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Jason English (Host): Right?

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So, I saw you this last weekend perform

and, uh, what I loved, I loved a lot of

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it, uh, all of it . I'll just say that.

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Not

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Eliot Bronson: I already

threatened to leave once.

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Jason English (Host):

lemme just preface that.

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No, uh, you did something that I wish more

people would do, which is before the song.

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You actually are like, in so many words,

you're like, Hey guys, I'm about to

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do a song, pay attention to this one

line because I'm really proud of it.

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And it's not about like a pride thing,

but it's like, I could tell that you take

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pride in that craft and you're, you're,

it's almost like it's whether it's clever

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or whether it's has a special meaning,

you're, you're, you kind of call it out.

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And I love that.

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I wish more people did that.

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Eliot Bronson: a special

meaning, you kind of call it out.

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Jason English (Host): the same skill.

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Eliot Bronson: You know, you could be a

great writer and not a great performer.

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You could be a great performer

and not write at all.

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You know, these are different things,

but one of the I've been doing this

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long enough to realize that, you know,

especially when I'm playing solo, I'm

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just, it's one guy with a guitar, and

I'm asking you to give me your full

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attention for an hour and a half,

and we can't even, you know, give our

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attention for Five minutes and let,

you know, with the way, you know, uh,

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our phones are, you know, the way that

we're so, you know, uh, distractible.

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And so I'm always trying to find ways to

either tell a funny story or tell a joke

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or maybe lift up the curtain, or maybe

it's just go ahead and point out the lyric

317

: 00:15:26

in such a way that when you get to that

lyric, you know, you get a little tickle

318

: 00:15:30

or you like, you like, you light up and

you laugh and you start to appreciate.

319

: 00:15:35

The song a little more and I think

it, it's just one of the many ways

320

: 00:15:38

I'm trying to keep people tuned in.

321

: 00:15:40

I want my show to be as good

as anything else you could have

322

: 00:15:43

done for that hour and a half.

323

: 00:15:45

Jason English (Host): So you

mentioned earlier, you have

324

: 00:15:46

more questions than answers.

325

: 00:15:48

I think the context of that was like

the faith, uh, the faith topic, but like

326

: 00:15:51

what, you know, At this point in your

career, what are you most curious about?

327

: 00:15:56

Well,

328

: 00:15:56

Eliot Bronson: I mean,

um, That's a big question.

329

: 00:15:59

It could be answered in

any number of ways, right?

330

: 00:16:01

Well, I mean, I'm, I'm fascinated by,

I don't know if curiosity is the right

331

: 00:16:05

word, but it might be, I'm fascinated by.

332

: 00:16:09

By art in general and songs in particular.

333

: 00:16:11

I mean, I've been at it for a long time,

but I'm Endlessly curious about what

334

: 00:16:15

makes music work, you know Why is it

that I can say I can string a sentence

335

: 00:16:21

together and sing it with pitch which

is just a frequency You know, it's just

336

: 00:16:25

an oscillation of sound in the air.

337

: 00:16:28

It's invisible.

338

: 00:16:30

It's, uh, it's really,

there's, it's not anything.

339

: 00:16:32

I mean, it's not, and yet I can do it.

340

: 00:16:34

And if I do it well, you might cry or you

might laugh or you might want to dance.

341

: 00:16:38

And, um, I'll never quite

understand why that is.

342

: 00:16:42

I don't know that I want to understand

why that is, because it's such a beautiful

343

: 00:16:45

thing, and I'm, and there's no end to

it, like, you know, you can write a song

344

: 00:16:50

that you're absolutely in love with,

345

: 00:16:52

but

346

: 00:16:53

there's an infinite supply of creativity

in the universe, so you can, you can

347

: 00:16:58

continue to mine it and change, and I

love, um, I just, I also love the process

348

: 00:17:03

of growing as an artist, and changing as

an artist, and deepening as an artist, and

349

: 00:17:07

um, and, And it teaches me about who I am.

350

: 00:17:10

My songs teach me, you know, I get

to see myself through my own songs.

351

: 00:17:13

They come back to me.

352

: 00:17:14

It's a way of getting outside of yourself.

353

: 00:17:16

It's a way of, like, I think I might've

said it at the show, but it's a, it's

354

: 00:17:19

a way of telling myself something

355

: 00:17:21

with,

356

: 00:17:22

in a, if it's interesting enough

or more beautiful enough that I

357

: 00:17:26

may actually pay attention to it.

358

: 00:17:27

Cause you know, we all have

things we know we should do or

359

: 00:17:31

advice that we have for ourselves.

360

: 00:17:32

We have, we all have our own wisdom.

361

: 00:17:34

But,

362

: 00:17:35

How often do we listen to ourselves?

363

: 00:17:37

But if you put it into something like

a song, or a painting, or a poem,

364

: 00:17:41

or

365

: 00:17:42

Hell, a good dinner.

366

: 00:17:43

You know, you make something out of it.

367

: 00:17:45

Um, then you get to really

appreciate it and see it.

368

: 00:17:48

And then it, and then it changes you.

369

: 00:17:51

And hopefully, maybe

changes other people too.

370

: 00:17:53

Jason English (Host): No,

that's, that, that's beautiful.

371

: 00:17:55

I do, I do have a question was when you

said, like the pitch when you were talking

372

: 00:17:58

about the pitch and, and it's unlimited.

373

: 00:18:01

You're a great picker of the guitar.

374

: 00:18:03

Oh,

375

: 00:18:03

Eliot Bronson: thank you.

376

: 00:18:04

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

377

: 00:18:04

It's, it's, it's really something is.

378

: 00:18:06

It, I, I don't play an in instrument,

but I've always wondered is that, is

379

: 00:18:11

there an unlimited supply of picking

options in around notes and melodies?

380

: 00:18:16

Or, or really, is it, is it limited

and it is just how you turn the

381

: 00:18:20

phrase, or you how you use it.

382

: 00:18:21

Does that make sense?

383

: 00:18:23

Eliot Bronson: Yeah.

384

: 00:18:23

I mean, there are a limited

number of, of notes.

385

: 00:18:27

Um, in the scale, you know, the diatonic

scale or the chromatic scale, sorry.

386

: 00:18:31

but you can use them in, in

infinite, because it's not just

387

: 00:18:35

the order of the notes, right?

388

: 00:18:37

It's the chords that go behind

them, which is the harmony, and

389

: 00:18:39

then there's the rhythm, you know?

390

: 00:18:40

So, I don't think we're ever going to

run out of, of ways to, uh, to order.

391

: 00:18:48

you know, and reorder sound there's,

there's, it's an infinite well, and

392

: 00:18:51

then you add words to it, right?

393

: 00:18:52

If you want to, and then

you add words to that.

394

: 00:18:54

So no, I mean, we're creativity.

395

: 00:18:56

Creativity is just, it's

so vast and it's wild.

396

: 00:19:00

It's, it's actually wild when you

listen to like something like country

397

: 00:19:03

music or folk music, how most of

it is only three or four chords and

398

: 00:19:08

still where we don't lose interest,

399

: 00:19:10

Jason English (Host): No, I know.

400

: 00:19:11

Eliot Bronson: you know, I mean,

401

: 00:19:12

Jason English (Host): it's like,

it's like songs sound the same,

402

: 00:19:13

but they're different, you know?

403

: 00:19:14

Eliot Bronson: sure.

404

: 00:19:15

And, and you know, You can write a song

that is reminiscent of other songs,

405

: 00:19:20

obviously, people do it all the time.

406

: 00:19:22

And people steal songs, even, I mean, you

know, even the greats, like I've already

407

: 00:19:25

mentioned Dylan, but Dylan stole tons.

408

: 00:19:28

But it doesn't, it doesn't take away

from the art because he, he made

409

: 00:19:32

something out of other things that's new.

410

: 00:19:35

There's a novel, there's

something novel about it, it's

411

: 00:19:38

not simply stealing, you know.

412

: 00:19:40

Um, but there are, sometimes

people do just steal.

413

: 00:19:43

Jason English (Host): Ha ha ha.

414

: 00:19:44

Well that was the whole

Ed Sheeran thing, right?

415

: 00:19:47

Eliot Bronson: Oh, I can't, they

416

: 00:19:48

Jason English (Host): the, the

lawsuit, um, they threw that out.

417

: 00:19:50

Yeah, they threw that out.

418

: 00:19:51

Yeah.

419

: 00:19:51

Yeah.

420

: 00:19:51

But, but his point was

like, listen, there's these,

421

: 00:19:54

Eliot Bronson: wasn't even close.

422

: 00:19:55

Jason English (Host): arrangements

all can all sound the same, but it's,

423

: 00:19:58

it, they're all, it's all new art,

424

: 00:19:59

Eliot Bronson: But sometimes

it does happen, like, I think

425

: 00:20:01

it was Sam Smith, wasn't it?

426

: 00:20:02

Who wrote this song that was, that

Petty was reminiscent of, like,

427

: 00:20:06

uh, I don't know if it's Won't

Back Down, I can't remember now.

428

: 00:20:09

But, but that, that,

he did get compensated.

429

: 00:20:12

Um, although I think I remember from

Tom Petty, I just said at the time,

430

: 00:20:15

like, this happens all the time.

431

: 00:20:18

Usually it doesn't get out of the

studio, but occasionally it does.

432

: 00:20:20

And the song's still out.

433

: 00:20:21

I mean, I think now Patti just has like,

writing, partial, partial writing credit.

434

: 00:20:25

So, so yeah.

435

: 00:20:26

I mean, I don't, I don't

even worry about it.

436

: 00:20:30

Yeah.

437

: 00:20:34

Jason English (Host): Spaces, you

talked about that song, and sort of

438

: 00:20:38

the essence of that is simplicity.

439

: 00:20:39

Um, you know, when you, when you release

that, I think, cause it was just,

440

: 00:20:42

I think you said it was like just a

couple of lines in a chorus basically.

441

: 00:20:46

Um, and on your new album, the

song that I have on repeat is,

442

: 00:20:52

I think it's the first one.

443

: 00:20:53

Wait for me.

444

: 00:20:55

Here's what I love about it.

445

: 00:20:57

So when I'm, when I listened to it the

first time, it sounds very complicated.

446

: 00:21:01

It sounds like there's a

lot of things going on.

447

: 00:21:04

Uh, the instrumentation,

the lyrics, the whole thing.

448

: 00:21:06

But when I printed out the lyrics,

there's not a lot going on, but

449

: 00:21:11

that's what makes it beautiful.

450

: 00:21:12

And in, I, I, I sort of looked at the,

looked, looked at my phone when it

451

: 00:21:16

was playing your, you basically say,

you know, when I fall behind, when

452

: 00:21:21

I'm gone a long time, uh, wait for me.

453

: 00:21:25

Those three words.

454

: 00:21:26

It takes you 50 seconds to get to

455

: 00:21:28

Eliot Bronson: to that.

456

: 00:21:30

Jason English (Host): right?

457

: 00:21:31

Yeah, it takes you 50 seconds.

458

: 00:21:34

Eliot Bronson: that's it, to get

through, to get to the end of that.

459

: 00:21:36

Jason English (Host): into that.

460

: 00:21:37

Yeah,

461

: 00:21:37

Eliot Bronson: I mean, I don't,

I don't think that the song

462

: 00:21:38

has a particularly long intro.

463

: 00:21:40

So I don't want folks to think that

my music is just like a bunch of

464

: 00:21:44

meandering until we get to the words.

465

: 00:21:45

Jason English (Host): No, no, but

what my point on that is that you're

466

: 00:21:49

picking and the instrumentation.

467

: 00:21:51

It fills the spaces.

468

: 00:21:53

Eliot Bronson: Also, I, I

hold those notes out, you

469

: 00:21:55

Jason English (Host): you

and you hold the notes

470

: 00:21:56

Eliot Bronson: hold fall.

471

: 00:21:57

Jason English (Host): That's

472

: 00:21:58

Eliot Bronson: I don't know if

that's one full or two full measures.

473

: 00:22:00

I can't think of it off the

top of my head, but yeah, that

474

: 00:22:02

is just stretched out lyric.

475

: 00:22:05

Jason English (Host): But

the lyrics are so simple

476

: 00:22:06

Eliot Bronson: yeah.

477

: 00:22:07

There.

478

: 00:22:07

Jason English (Host):

Incredibly simple, but

479

: 00:22:08

Eliot Bronson: simple.

480

: 00:22:09

Straightforward.

481

: 00:22:10

Jason English (Host): turned it

into a like a completely beautiful

482

: 00:22:13

Eliot Bronson: Yeah.

483

: 00:22:13

Thank you.

484

: 00:22:14

I appreciate that.

485

: 00:22:15

yeah,

486

: 00:22:18

Jason English (Host): I lose my nerve

when I've lost the words wait for me

487

: 00:22:23

Not a lot there, but so much there.

488

: 00:22:25

Eliot Bronson: Right.

489

: 00:22:26

Well, I was just mentioning Petty.

490

: 00:22:27

I'll just use that as an example.

491

: 00:22:28

Like, what, like, um, Won't

back down, won't back down.

492

: 00:22:33

Stand me up at the gates of

hell and I won't back down.

493

: 00:22:36

on my ground, won't be turned around.

494

: 00:22:38

Yeah, I mean, and I'll keep

this world from turning me

495

: 00:22:40

around and won't back down.

496

: 00:22:42

I mean, it's, it's, it's not.

497

: 00:22:44

It's, so there are many

types of good songs.

498

: 00:22:46

You know, and sometimes, you

know, it's Bohemian Rhapsody.

499

: 00:22:50

You know, and it's, it's lots of

words and they're all over the place.

500

: 00:22:52

And, and sometimes it's just

something like, um, Right?

501

: 00:22:57

When I find myself in times of

trouble, Mother Mary comes to me,

502

: 00:23:00

speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

503

: 00:23:02

Let it be, let it be,

let it be, let it be.

504

: 00:23:05

Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

505

: 00:23:07

So sometimes it's not about,

about being complicated or

506

: 00:23:10

being tricky or being clever.

507

: 00:23:11

There are songs that are great that

actually do that really, really well.

508

: 00:23:16

And I think there are just

many types of good songs.

509

: 00:23:18

And sometimes when the sentiment is

something as simple as, wait for me,

510

: 00:23:22

you know, or, or empty spaces where it's

just, I'm just trying to go straight

511

: 00:23:26

to the heart with this one, you know?

512

: 00:23:27

And, um, and sometimes the

vulnerability of simplicity.

513

: 00:23:33

Not hiding behind Clever can add power

to a song because you really feel

514

: 00:23:38

like, you know, if, if your partner,

your, your wife or husband or whoever

515

: 00:23:43

comes to you and says something as

simple as, you know, Hey, when I'm not

516

: 00:23:46

great, would, would you wait for me?

517

: 00:23:48

Like, that would be more powerful than

if they had like a big flowery song,

518

: 00:23:52

flowery song and dance, you know,

and they didn't get to that heart.

519

: 00:23:57

So sometimes I'm just going

straight at the heart.

520

: 00:23:58

Sometimes I'm going for a little

of the mind, but you know,

521

: 00:24:01

it just depends on the song.

522

: 00:24:01

Jason English (Host): song.

523

: 00:24:01

Well, on the flip side,

simplicity works both ways, right?

524

: 00:24:04

You can have something like, wait for me.

525

: 00:24:06

You can also have, are you still mean?

526

: 00:24:08

Right.

527

: 00:24:10

Right?

528

: 00:24:11

Eliot Bronson: Yeah, that

one's got a little more clever

529

: 00:24:13

in it than Wait For Me does.

530

: 00:24:15

But the structure of it is pretty simple.

531

: 00:24:17

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

532

: 00:24:18

is it fair to empty spaces

you wrote at a time of like

533

: 00:24:21

heartbreak, a complete heartbreak,

534

: 00:24:23

Eliot Bronson: Totally.

535

: 00:24:24

Yes.

536

: 00:24:25

Jason English (Host): So if

that's the case, and that was

537

: 00:24:27

from a, like a 10 year engagement,

538

: 00:24:28

Eliot Bronson: Yeah.

539

: 00:24:29

Well, 10 year

540

: 00:24:30

Jason English (Host): year relationship.

541

: 00:24:31

Eliot Bronson: We weren't

engaged the whole time.

542

: 00:24:32

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

543

: 00:24:32

Yeah.

544

: 00:24:33

But 10 year relationship

that you were engaged.

545

: 00:24:35

Yeah.

546

: 00:24:35

Yeah.

547

: 00:24:35

Eliot Bronson: yeah, essentially,

you know, marriage of sorts.

548

: 00:24:38

Jason English (Host): Right.

549

: 00:24:38

Yeah.

550

: 00:24:39

Yeah.

551

: 00:24:39

It's like a divorce, right?

552

: 00:24:41

Eliot Bronson: Yeah.

553

: 00:24:41

I mean, other than the law, it

was, you know, we lived together.

554

: 00:24:46

We were together for a long time.

555

: 00:24:47

We were engaged.

556

: 00:24:48

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

557

: 00:24:49

Eliot Bronson: so yeah, so the,

that record was me working that out.

558

: 00:24:51

Jason English (Host):

Mm-Hmm, , absolutely.

559

: 00:24:53

What, what is this record then?

560

: 00:24:55

Because there's still

elements of that, right?

561

: 00:24:57

Eliot Bronson: Well, yeah,

I mean, it's my life.

562

: 00:24:58

So, I mean, I, I, I'm not one of

these people who generally writes,

563

: 00:25:03

you know, um, fictional songs.

564

: 00:25:06

Um, uh, or what's a better way to put it?

565

: 00:25:08

Like writing from the perspective of, of,

of a character, you know, I have done it.

566

: 00:25:13

It's fun sometimes, but I, I just find

that for my therapy, I need to work

567

: 00:25:17

through my junk and that seems to be

the best material that I come up with.

568

: 00:25:21

Um, so, so yeah, I mean, some of

it's a continuing story of healing

569

: 00:25:25

that doesn't happen overnight.

570

: 00:25:26

This record came out of really out

of the whole pandemic period because,

571

: 00:25:33

um, like a lot of artists, I, Had

to cancel tours and had to stay at

572

: 00:25:38

home and started live streaming and

that really changed the whole thing

573

: 00:25:41

for me I never would have believed

that like Broadcasting on Facebook

574

: 00:25:46

would do anything interesting at all.

575

: 00:25:49

But

576

: 00:25:49

um,

577

: 00:25:50

you know, not only did I

578

: 00:25:52

find a community and

579

: 00:25:54

A community and sort of almost

like create a community.

580

: 00:25:57

I mean, or the community

created itself around me.

581

: 00:26:00

You know, I have these folks who

would tune in every single week.

582

: 00:26:02

Cause I did a live stream on

th,: 2020

583

: 00:26:06

And then I repeated that for 165

weeks and I didn't miss a week.

584

: 00:26:10

So it went on.

585

: 00:26:10

Even when I started touring again,

I was reluctant to give it up.

586

: 00:26:13

So I packed all my live gym gear

in the car and I just didn't take

587

: 00:26:17

any stage gigs on Wednesdays.

588

: 00:26:18

Because I made sure I kept it going.

589

: 00:26:20

And the folks who would tune in,

they started to know each other.

590

: 00:26:23

And they're from all different

parts of the country.

591

: 00:26:25

They would check in each

other's families, and you know.

592

: 00:26:28

Um, and it became this

593

: 00:26:30

something

594

: 00:26:30

bigger than me, which was really

fascinating and gratifying.

595

: 00:26:36

And it helped me grow as an

artist and as a person, because

596

: 00:26:39

it made me less selfish about it.

597

: 00:26:40

You know, I was realizing that I was the

hub of something that was kind of special

598

: 00:26:44

to this, this, this group of people.

599

: 00:26:46

And so, um, so that changed me a lot.

600

: 00:26:49

And then what also changed me was I

was gigging every week in my living

601

: 00:26:54

room or my friend's living room for a

while, actually, the way it went down,

602

: 00:26:58

but I was gigging every week and I,

I quickly figured out that it would

603

: 00:27:02

probably, people would maybe lose

interest if I just kept playing my

604

: 00:27:06

favorite songs that I wrote every week.

605

: 00:27:08

So I started mixing in

covers, but I would theme it.

606

: 00:27:11

So I'd be like, here's my favorite songs

from the 70s, or here's my favorite

607

: 00:27:13

Bob Dylan songs, or here's Jackson

Browne, or here's Lucinda Williams.

608

: 00:27:16

And, so, you know, I've been playing

music, guitar, and singing, and

609

: 00:27:21

performing for forever, and I've always

been mostly interested in writing.

610

: 00:27:25

But I went to school for,

you know, for three years.

611

: 00:27:28

I got a, I got a little mini degree

in covering my favorite writers.

612

: 00:27:31

And then, and then even writers, I

didn't even think I would cover like

613

: 00:27:34

Prince, you know, who thought I could

turn Prince songs into, into Eliot songs.

614

: 00:27:39

And so.

615

: 00:27:40

At the end of that period, I had written

a lot of songs, I'd played a lot solo,

616

: 00:27:45

and I thought, I want to create that

feeling of sitting in the living room,

617

: 00:27:49

just me, intimately performing my songs.

618

: 00:27:52

And so the initial idea was a totally

solo record, just me and a guitar.

619

: 00:27:56

And I got in there and I was like,

well, we could add a little bit.

620

: 00:27:59

So we got some pedal steel, we got

some upright bass and a few other

621

: 00:28:02

instruments, but I intentionally

kept it sparse and I kept it simple.

622

: 00:28:06

And so, Musically, that is

where the record came from.

623

: 00:28:11

And then personally, I think I was

also working out, not only the last of

624

: 00:28:15

what was left over from Empty Spaces,

but a lot of just themes of isolation

625

: 00:28:20

and loneliness and, um, solitude,

reflection, all the things that I think

626

: 00:28:24

that At least for me, that the whole

pandemic period sort of spurred on.

627

: 00:28:29

Jason English (Host): Yeah, I

mean, it wasn't literally that,

628

: 00:28:37

Eliot Bronson: it wasn't

literally that, but I realized

629

: 00:28:38

that, that it felt like that.

630

: 00:28:40

I mean, after the song was written, I

realized that sometimes when I'm doing

631

: 00:28:44

these live streams, it did feel very

much like I was playing to myself.

632

: 00:28:48

I had to remind myself that these

people, these little You know, symbols

633

: 00:28:51

on the on the screen floating up in

front of me are represent humans who are

634

: 00:28:55

watching me because it's very different.

635

: 00:28:57

There's an energy exchange with people

when you're in the room with them.

636

: 00:29:00

I believe that you're not only

listening to me and seeing me,

637

: 00:29:04

but there's physical energy being.

638

: 00:29:07

You know, pass back and forth.

639

: 00:29:08

And I'm not a real woo woo kind of

person, or maybe I am depends who

640

: 00:29:12

you ask on the spectrum of woo woo.

641

: 00:29:14

I'm, I'm somewhere in the middle, but,

um, but I, it just, you know, I, I can

642

: 00:29:18

feel it, I can feel it as a listener.

643

: 00:29:21

I can feel it as a performer.

644

: 00:29:22

And when you take that away,

it does feel very isolating.

645

: 00:29:24

So yeah, there was this element

of, of, of aloneness of isolation

646

: 00:29:29

of talking to myself that

became the theme for the record.

647

: 00:29:32

And I didn't write the song to be

the theme of the record, but when.

648

: 00:29:34

I went to title the album, I didn't want

to name it after one of the songs because

649

: 00:29:39

I did that in the last one and I, I don't

know, I thought let's just come up with

650

: 00:29:42

something cool and weird, but had this

title talking to myself staring me in

651

: 00:29:45

the face that had everything to do with

everything I just told you and everything

652

: 00:29:49

I was excited about this record, all the

reasons I was excited about this record.

653

: 00:29:52

So I just, sometimes you just, you just

go with what the universe is trying

654

: 00:29:56

to hand you and you don't fight it.

655

: 00:29:58

So that it was the obvious title.

656

: 00:30:00

Jason English (Host): No it

works yeah it totally works.

657

: 00:30:02

So you mentioned the Prince stuff

how did when doves cry how did

658

: 00:30:05

that become a thing for you?

659

: 00:30:06

Eliot Bronson: Well, it became,

it was literally born out of doing

660

: 00:30:09

these themed Wednesday nights.

661

: 00:30:12

I had covered like all of my favorites,

you know, I had, I had done the Beatles

662

: 00:30:16

and petty and Jackson Brown and Paul

Simon and, and, uh, you know, I don't

663

: 00:30:22

know, um, anyone you can think of.

664

: 00:30:24

I did it.

665

: 00:30:25

I was even, um,

666

: 00:30:28

anyone

667

: 00:30:28

remotely folky, you know,

or, or Americana or country.

668

: 00:30:32

I, that I loved, I did all my heroes.

669

: 00:30:34

And then, um, and then I was like,

well, I should probably try some

670

: 00:30:38

things that are a little harder for me.

671

: 00:30:39

Like maybe I'll do David

Bowie and maybe I'll do

672

: 00:30:43

Prince.

673

: 00:30:44

So I actually did a whole Prince night

and I covered a ton of Prince songs.

674

: 00:30:48

And for whatever reason, the

version I kind of cooked up

675

: 00:30:51

for myself for when doves cry.

676

: 00:30:53

I just, I just love singing it.

677

: 00:30:55

I love playing it.

678

: 00:30:56

It doesn't resemble the

original in a whole lot of ways.

679

: 00:30:59

Lyrically it does.

680

: 00:31:00

And obviously some of the melody

it does, but, um, I feel like

681

: 00:31:02

it just made it work for me.

682

: 00:31:04

And, uh, I, I really love watching people

in the room as they slowly, it dawns

683

: 00:31:10

on them, I'm singing a Prince song.

684

: 00:31:13

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

685

: 00:31:13

No, it's cool.

686

: 00:31:14

Cause I think if you go to,

on YouTube and type in Eliot

687

: 00:31:17

Bronson, it's like Eliot Bronson.

688

: 00:31:19

And then in the suggested

search, it's when doves cry.

689

: 00:31:21

Eliot Bronson: Oh, is it up there?

690

: 00:31:22

Is there a version of me on

691

: 00:31:23

Jason English (Host): I don't know.

692

: 00:31:24

Like I didn't, I, I

wasn't interested in it.

693

: 00:31:26

It from the standpoint of like, I

wanted to learn more about your,

694

: 00:31:29

your, your music, but, um, but

then when you played it the other

695

: 00:31:32

night, I'm like, okay, this must

696

: 00:31:33

Eliot Bronson: I guess, yeah, I

guess people are searching for it.

697

: 00:31:35

I've been doing it.

698

: 00:31:36

I don't know.

699

: 00:31:36

Not every show, but for the last year or

so, I've been throwing it into my sets.

700

: 00:31:40

It's funny that it's It's

been searched for enough.

701

: 00:31:42

I, I can't even search myself.

702

: 00:31:44

I can't even stand watching,

you know, it's too much.

703

: 00:31:48

it's a fun moment.

704

: 00:31:48

And it's a, you know, again, I'm trying to

put a show together that is entertaining

705

: 00:31:52

and, you know, hopefully moving, make

you cry, make you laugh, all the things.

706

: 00:31:56

And that's just, you know,

it's one moment in the show.

707

: 00:32:00

I got some goofy songs, I got

some real tearjerkers, and

708

: 00:32:03

then I got this, like, Prince

709

: 00:32:05

Jason English (Host): Oh, it's,

it's, yeah, it, it works, right?

710

: 00:32:07

Yeah.

711

: 00:32:07

Yeah.

712

: 00:32:07

That's good.

713

: 00:32:09

Is the, uh, the live stream community

that you mentioned, is that the,

714

: 00:32:11

uh, I love your guts landia is that,

715

: 00:32:15

Eliot Bronson: Yeah, yeah.

716

: 00:32:16

Jason English (Host): So where did

the, I love your guts come from?

717

: 00:32:18

Cause that's, that's kind

of your, your tagline,

718

: 00:32:20

Eliot Bronson: it's so ridiculous.

719

: 00:32:21

If I had, like, like a

lot of things that I do

720

: 00:32:24

Jason English (Host): um,

721

: 00:32:24

Eliot Bronson: it was spontaneous.

722

: 00:32:26

And if I could rename it, I would,

I mean, I can't rename the group.

723

: 00:32:30

And, and, and also people have just

gotten attached, I guess, but I think

724

: 00:32:33

I, it was something I would say, maybe

even with my old band, I would, you

725

: 00:32:37

know, we just goofing around because

people say, I hate your guts, you know?

726

: 00:32:40

So it was like, I love your guts.

727

: 00:32:41

And then, I don't know, it just stuck.

728

: 00:32:43

So now I, uh, we're

thinking of Portlandia.

729

: 00:32:46

So I Love Your Gutslandia

. It's, it's ridiculous.

730

: 00:32:50

It's totally ridiculous

731

: 00:32:51

Jason English (Host): when the

brilliant inventions kind of split up.

732

: 00:32:54

Uh, again, at the time you said, you

know, when something ends, there's

733

: 00:32:57

opportunity when that happened.

734

: 00:32:59

Did you anticipate at

all where you are today?

735

: 00:33:02

Like, you know, doing what

you're doing very successful.

736

: 00:33:06

A lot of, a lot of listeners

on Spotify, the Yellowstone

737

: 00:33:09

placement, the touring, all that.

738

: 00:33:12

I mean, was that a moment?

739

: 00:33:14

Because you've had, you've had to

pick up the pieces a few different

740

: 00:33:17

times in your career, right?

741

: 00:33:19

Did you anticipate that this is, this

would be where you, you would be?

742

: 00:33:24

Eliot Bronson: It's a good question.

743

: 00:33:25

Um, I don't think that we in this

interview so far had addressed the

744

: 00:33:29

brilliant inventions, but I should say

that was my previous duo band that I

745

: 00:33:32

was in, um, in my early mid twenties.

746

: 00:33:36

Um, we played together

for about five, six years.

747

: 00:33:39

And, um, and yeah, so it, it was a, it

was a big chunk of, of my musical life

748

: 00:33:45

and we had this trajectory where we were.

749

: 00:33:48

A lot of cool things came together

for us quickly and we kind of thought

750

: 00:33:51

we were, you know, rock stars in

the making or something like that.

751

: 00:33:54

So when we broke up, it was actually,

it was, it was pretty tough because

752

: 00:33:59

I didn't know what I was going to do

at that point and I was, you know, 30

753

: 00:34:02

ish, early 30s and I was like, well,

I haven't really developed any other

754

: 00:34:06

marketable skills, so this is it, you

know, and, um, and I made a record on

755

: 00:34:12

shoestring with my buddy Will Robertson.

756

: 00:34:15

And I really, I remember feeling, cause

it's been a while now, and I remember

757

: 00:34:19

feeling like, I don't, I just don't

know, like, is anybody gonna like this?

758

: 00:34:23

It's very different than what I did

with Josh, we were quirky and upbeat

759

: 00:34:27

and fun, and I was doing a lot more

serious stuff, and, I don't know,

760

: 00:34:31

maybe not serious, but, poetic.

761

: 00:34:34

And, luckily, there was a few good

reviews right out of the gate, people

762

: 00:34:39

started coming to shows, and it wasn't

overnight at all, but, so your question,

763

: 00:34:43

like, did I anticipate being here?

764

: 00:34:45

No, I had no idea.

765

: 00:34:46

I, I, I thought this could be the

beginning or the end, just as easily.

766

: 00:34:50

I have no idea which one it's gonna be.

767

: 00:34:52

But, you know, I have learned something

and I've learned a few things.

768

: 00:34:56

One thing I've learned about myself is

like this, this art thing, this music

769

: 00:35:00

thing, this songwriting thing is, I don't

necessarily believe in like a destiny

770

: 00:35:04

or a purpose, but it's my calling.

771

: 00:35:06

It's like what I have to do.

772

: 00:35:08

I mean, for whatever reason,

I just, I just have to do it.

773

: 00:35:11

There's not a choice in it, and so,

whether it works or it doesn't work,

774

: 00:35:15

I'll be over here, putting together

songs and singing them and selling

775

: 00:35:19

them to whoever is interested.

776

: 00:35:21

Jason English (Host): Um, so that

reminds me of the last track, which

777

: 00:35:24

is called What I've Done With My Life.

778

: 00:35:26

Right.

779

: 00:35:27

Is that a song of pride?

780

: 00:35:29

Is it a song of regret?

781

: 00:35:30

Is it a song of reflection?

782

: 00:35:32

Like where does that come from?

783

: 00:35:35

Eliot Bronson: It's a song

of reflection, for sure.

784

: 00:35:38

it is a conversation that I think

I had with myself in writing it.

785

: 00:35:44

where

786

: 00:35:45

where you take stock of your life

and, and the choices you made.

787

: 00:35:50

And.

788

: 00:35:52

I'm really proud of that one.

789

: 00:35:53

That's one of my favorite songs I've

written, uh, because I, because it's

790

: 00:35:57

not black and white because the song

does take, it has the self doubt in it.

791

: 00:36:04

It has the tinges of regret,

but ultimately, the, I believe

792

: 00:36:09

there's redemption in it as well.

793

: 00:36:11

so, yeah, when I said it was a

calling, that is certainly reflected

794

: 00:36:14

in the lyrics of that song.

795

: 00:36:15

And if you listen to it, each

verse goes a little deeper.

796

: 00:36:20

into

797

: 00:36:22

um,

798

: 00:36:23

like peeling layers off the onion, you

know, about why, you know, so it starts

799

: 00:36:26

off very simply and kind of kind of

comically what I've done with my life

800

: 00:36:31

is to make up silly rhymes and climb up

on the stage and talk about my crimes.

801

: 00:36:35

I've squandered my blessings, got no

children and no wife just years of

802

: 00:36:39

confessing what I've done with my life.

803

: 00:36:41

So it does start off like maybe

negative, you know, but then as

804

: 00:36:45

it goes on, you realize that.

805

: 00:36:48

Or I, or I realized maybe, um, that

I've, that I've been working at something

806

: 00:36:53

that was important at least to me

and maybe to other people as well.

807

: 00:36:56

So then it gets to later on, it gets

to, what I've done with my life is to

808

: 00:36:59

swim against the stream, to stare in the

face of sorrow and try to find meaning.

809

: 00:37:04

I've sharpened my language.

810

: 00:37:06

You can cut just like a knife.

811

: 00:37:07

And every single song I've sang

is what I've done with my life.

812

: 00:37:10

life.

813

: 00:37:11

And that could be the ending.

814

: 00:37:13

That could be a, that'd

be just a fine ending.

815

: 00:37:15

But then, and I did skip a

second verse, but then it goes.

816

: 00:37:18

Another layer, even deeper than that,

where I say what I've done with my

817

: 00:37:21

life is to try and pierce the veil.

818

: 00:37:23

To see through the illusion

and to know what's really real.

819

: 00:37:26

I ain't asking for forgiveness.

820

: 00:37:28

I ain't offering advice.

821

: 00:37:30

I just sing so I can live with

what I've done with my life.

822

: 00:37:33

So in the end, it's sort of like

this, um, honest appraisal, you know?

823

: 00:37:39

I know I'm doing this to heal myself.

824

: 00:37:41

I get it.

825

: 00:37:42

But I'm also looking for something

deeper and transcendent even.

826

: 00:37:46

In this process, and yeah, you know,

I have the self doubts and sometimes I

827

: 00:37:49

think it was crazy to get on this path.

828

: 00:37:52

All of it, it's all in

there, it's the, it's

829

: 00:37:54

and

830

: 00:37:55

why I love it.

831

: 00:37:55

For

832

: 00:41:34

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

833

: 00:41:35

episode of Curious Goldfish.

834

: 00:41:37

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

835

: 00:41:41

Also tell your music loving

friends about us too.

836

: 00:41:45

Until next time, stay curious.