Episode 24

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Published on:

27th May 2024

In the Studio with Davin McCoy (With Special Guest Dan Hannon)

Behind the Music: Recording with Dan Hannon and Davin McCoy at Ivy Manor

In this episode of Curious Goldfish, host Jason English delves into the recording process of Davin McCoy's first album in a decade at the Ivy Manor Group in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. The conversation begins with legendary producer Dan Hannon, known for his meticulous attention to detail and ability to elevate an artist's vision. Hannon discusses his career and personal challenges, including overcoming throat cancer, and how he collaborates with artists to realize their musical goals. The episode then shifts to a detailed account of the recording sessions, exploring the emotional and technical intricacies involved. Davin McCoy shares his experiences, from initial nervousness and finding comfort in the studio to the process of tracking and adding layers to the songs. The recording environment, camaraderie among the team, and the significance of Muscle Shoals' musical heritage are highlighted. The episode concludes with light-hearted anecdotes and an update on the project's progress, hinting at the excitement for the album's release.


01:07 Introducing Curious Goldfish: A Music Podcast

02:47 Spotlight on Dan Hannon: A Music Production Maestro

04:39 Dan Hannon's Personal Journey and Studio Dynamics

05:14 The Making of Davin McCoy's Album: An Insider's View

35:06 The Creative Process and Song Selection

35:41 Production Challenges and Surprising Outcomes

36:37 Anticipation for the Album's Completion

39:54 The Mystique of Muscle Shoals Explored

48:31 Final Thoughts and Looking Ahead

53:18 The Social Side of Recording: Ping Pong and Camaraderie

Transcript
Dan Hannon:

you know, my goal is to help the artist realize their vision.

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Not to make my record and not to

put Dan Annen's signature on it.

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And so, the best thing that could

happen is that, When recounting this

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experience, Davin thinks, man, that's the

record that I've always wanted to make.

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Davin McCoy: And then we just I think

day three was when it really started

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just kind of lift it off and we just

we figured out kind of the things we

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needed to do and adjust in order to get

me sort of comfortable and And for Dan,

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I think to figure out what I needed

from him in terms of The producer's

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job is to manipulate you, you know?

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So that takes a minute for a good

producer to figure out, like, what's

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the way in which to motivate you to do

what he wants you to do without telling

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you to do what he wants you to do.

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

curious goldfish, a podcast community

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where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

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with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find curious goldfish and all the

major podcast and social media platforms.

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And of course, we have all of

our content on our website.

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Curious goldfish.

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com.

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Dan Hannon is a name that resonates

with authenticity and excellence

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in the music production world.

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Known for his knack for creating polished,

yet emotionally resonant records.

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Hanen has carved out a significant

niche for himself over the years.

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Hailing from Atlanta, Georgia, but

now living in Muscle Shoals, Alabama,

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he's a veteran in the industry with a

career that spans well over two decades.

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Hanen first made waves with his work

on Manchester Orchestra's critically

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acclaimed albums, particularly Mean

Everything to Nothing and Simple Math.

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These projects showcase his ability

to blend raw indie rock energy with

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refined, nuanced production techniques.

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His meticulous attention to detail

and collaborative approach have

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earned him a reputation as a

producer who truly understands

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how to elevate an artist's vision.

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Beyond Manchester Orchestra, Hannon has

worked with a diverse array of artists

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including Aaron Schust, The shadow boxers,

Paris Jackson, the daughter of Michael

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Jackson, and they rocket to the moon,

demonstrating his versatility across

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genres from rock to pop to worship music.

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Collectively, the artists he has produced

post over 1 billion streams and he has

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produced co produced co written and, or

performed on albums that have sold over 4.

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5 million copies.

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His current billboard chart success

includes two number one albums, three

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number one songs, 13 top 10 albums, 15

top 20 albums, three top 10 rock albums,

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and four top 10 alternative albums.

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His projects often achieve

a balance between mainstream

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appeal and artistic integrity,

making impactful, lasting music.

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His enduring success lies in his

passion for music and his unwavering

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commitment to producing records that

resonate on a deep and emotional level.

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Hannon has also endured some personal

challenges in the last few years.

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Throat cancer came on fast and strong a

few years ago, affecting his vocal chords

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and speech and requiring him to press a

button at the base of his neck to speak.

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Hannon is now part of the Ivy Manor Group

in Muscle Shoals, Alabama, boasting

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an all inclusive recording studio,

just a stone's throw away from the

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Tennessee River, and in the same zip

code, where artists like Aretha Franklin

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and the Rolling Stones laid down all

time great tracks, alongside Grammy

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winner Gary Nichols, industry anchor

Michael Shane Wright, award winning

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songwriter Clint Ingersoll, and more.

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And this

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is where I picked up the conversation with

Atlanta singer songwriter, Davin McCoy

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earlier this year, I sat down with

Davin in Atlanta, ahead of his long

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planned trip to Ivy manor to record

his first album in a decade, I had

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the incredible opportunity to see much

of the recording process take place.

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A first for me with Nichols Grammy

shimmering on the living room

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fireplace mantle, Davin and the

entire Ivy Manor team were tenacious

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and getting every note in harmony.

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Just right over and over and over again.

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What struck me most was how tedious the

process is me not being a musician in

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any form or fashion, just kind of assumed

an artist like Davin would come in.

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Take a couple of takes, and Hannon

and the fellows would tweak a

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little here and there, and then

just move on to the next one.

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How was I wrong in the best possible way?

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Like a mad scientist experimenting

with potions and chemicals, Hannon

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would work his magic sitting behind a

45 year old soundboard built for Bob

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Marley's son, and in front of a screen

that looks like Tetris on steroids.

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It was completely fascinating

and inspiring at the same time.

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It's incredible the amount of work that

goes into a three and a half minute

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song, but that's what happens when you

bring together a team of professionals

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and perfectionists with an artist

like Davin, who knows what he wants.

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in this part two of the series

in the studio with Davin McCoy,

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I talked with both Davin McCoy

and Dan Hannon about the process.

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I hope you find this peek behind the

curtains as interesting as I did at the

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end of the episode, I'm including a track

off Davin's new album that was originally

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recorded 18 months ago, part of a live

album from Eddie's attic in Atlanta

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available today on Spotify, but beyond

the music, you also get an update on ping

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pong from the courts outside of Ivy manor.

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It's a good thing Davin can make

incredible music as I was happy

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to put him in his place despite

his outrageous trash talking Hey

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Davin, just stick to your music.

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Okay.

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So again, here's Davin McCoy.

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But we first begin with

legendary producer, Dan Hannon

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from Muscle Shoals, Alabama.

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Let's dive in.

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Pleasure

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Dan Hannon: you.

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Jason English (Host): mine, Jason.

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An album recording, uh, so this, this

I'm a virgin no more after the last 36

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hours, but the, what you guys have put

together here at Ivy Manor, and the

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team and just witnessing everything

is, it's just been really eyeopening.

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And, uh, I appreciate

you putting up with me.

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Dan Hannon: the witness

and everything, it's just

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over

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the past 30 years.

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And this is quite literally

my favorite place to be.

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And it's, you know, I moved here

to be in this, in this studio.

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So you picked a great

place to get started, man.

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Jason English (Host): It's

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Dan Hannon: having you

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Jason English (Host): been

pleasure having you here.

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Well for that

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Dan Hannon: Oh, wow.

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Jason English (Host): It's

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Dan Hannon: Well thank you for that man.

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It's funny, it's

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literally just a product of me toiling

over it for years and spend so many hours.

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And you know, I had buddies, um, who were

kind of my mentors and the whole thing.

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And I would, there were in the early

days, many times where I was calling

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my friend, Rick, Beato, actually, who's

a, who's a big podcaster now, actually.

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Um, but I'd run into an issue and,

hey, man, what's the shortcut for this?

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Or why am I getting this error message?

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Jason English (Host): Right.

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Dan Hannon: uh, I don't know.

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And the only reason I ever learned it

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was to make music.

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So that was just the barrier to get in

and start recording my songs, you know, so

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the quicker I can learn it and just, you

know, get it out of the way, the better.

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So, but it's nice to be, you know, that

that skill set is acknowledged because

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I don't even think about it really.

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It's just a

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Jason English (Host): No, it's

crazy to watch you, uh, to watch

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you do everything, to be honest.

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So yeah, no, I appreciate,

I appreciate that.

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Um, so you've, uh, you've

survived throat cancer.

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Is that fair to say so far?

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How are you, like, how are you doing?

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When, when, when, when did

that all happen for you?

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Is it pretty recent or?

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Dan Hannon: Well, I was

originally diagnosed in:

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So eight years ago now.

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And uh, I just had a pretty big

milestone actually for, since I was

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diagnosed in 2016, I had never gone

two years without a recurrence.

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And if you're going to have a

recurrence, it's typically in the

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first two years that it comes back.

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Well, this past January,

:

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ever

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since 2016 that I've gone two years

without something else popping back up.

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So the very grateful for that.

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And, uh, you know, I don't, I don't,

uh, take anything for granted.

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You know, I, I'm, my outcome is

way better than a lot of people.

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So I'm super grateful for that.

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And, uh, It's a, it's a great reminder

to stay present and not, not, you know,

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I'm not counting days that I have.

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I'm just living this one.

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And, um, so yeah, I mean,

I've survived so far.

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Yeah, that's how I like to look at it.

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And yeah, I mean, just the

fact that I have a voice.

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Um, and

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so many people, I don't know if, did you

ever see the Val Kilmer documentary on

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Jason English (Host): So you

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Dan Hannon: So, you know,

he has the same thing.

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And if you watch that documentary,

you can't really understand him.

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He has the same sort of thing where

he has to push his button to talk.

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And, but as the quality of his voice

is so bad and you know, I watched

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that and just thought, wow, you know,

how lucky am I to be able to, most

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people can understand what I'm saying.

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And, and that sound.

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Very much like I did in the past,

according to my friends, so.

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Jason English (Host): Well, and how

lucky you are to be working with Just

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such a diverse, uh group of people

that all brings what I what i've

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noticed is they all bring something

different to the table You know

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Dan Hannon: it's

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funny because so many of us are so

capable at all of the things, so figuring

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out who's gonna handle what and, you

know, it's like, It's kind of, it's

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part of the fun around here because

you got Gary Nichols, who is the best

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singer I've ever heard in my life,

you know, and is a Grammy winner and

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can play any instrument and slay it.

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And he'll just, you know, pop

in, Hey, you need any vocals?

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You need any guitar?

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Uh, yeah, we're going to

find a reason to need that.

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And, uh, you know, Jared,

who is a fantastic mixer and

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producer in his own right.

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And, uh, I've been working

with him since:

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He interned with me

straight out of high school.

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Jason English (Host): She's

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Dan Hannon: And now he's just a beast.

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Um, Clint Ingersoll, who is I don't

know if you got to speak much with

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him, but, um, multi platinum songwriter

and, uh, killer musician and one of

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my favorite people on the planet.

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And, uh, Michael Wright, who you sitting

in this room, you can see, I mean, we're

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all sort of, uh, work here because of

Michael and the amazing studio he built.

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there's so many people around here

that make it great, but, um, yeah, man,

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and it's, it's all really fresh too.

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It's like I moved here in July,

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Jason English (Host): Right.

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Dan Hannon: so there's still that

new, vibrant sort of fresh energy.

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Yeah,

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Jason English (Host): No, that's neat.

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Um, and for you, uh, you know, the,

the, the stats and stuff for, for your

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producing career is kind of insane.

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Uh, and I know the metrics have

probably changed through the years

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with the streaming and stuff, but

I mean, your, uh, your career is,

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is, it's, it's pretty ridiculous.

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Um,

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Dan Hannon: Well, Uh, Thank you.

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Jason English (Host): No, seriously.

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it's again an honor to be, to be here.

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And I know in talking to Dav in the,

the, in the months preceding, uh,

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his time here, you know, he was, he

was totally stoked to, to be here.

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And I just talked to him.

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I'm like, well, would you come back?

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And he's like a hundred percent,

you know, so that, you know, I think

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the, the experience has been great.

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Dan Hannon: I'm trying to

convince him to move here.

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That's what I'm trying.

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I'm trying to get everybody to

move here, man, because there's

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such a great energy and to have.

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I mean, obviously, Davin

came up and immediately was

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just one of the crew and, um,

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and

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I need him to be here so I

can overtake him in ping pong

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beat

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I can't stand being beat down so badly.

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Jason English (Host): stand being

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beaten so badly.

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this project with him.

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Um, that's my first question.

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And then, you know, I have a couple more

and I'll let you get back to the work.

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Dan Hannon: honestly, it was

an honor to even be asked.

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And, um, it, it was kind of an

odd coincidence because, uh,

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Robby's partner, uh, Davin's partner in

crime, Robby, um, who plays percussion.

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I've known Robby.

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I met him 25 years ago or

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Jason English (Host): wow.

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Dan Hannon: in Atlanta.

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He played in a band and I

was in a band back then.

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And, um, you know, and

we knew of each other.

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We're never super tight, but I ran into

him at Eddie's attic at a, uh, Uh, sort

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of a weird event that they had there.

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Jeff Buckley's old tour manager was doing

a book signing and doing an interview.

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And I'm a huge Buckley fan, as

is, as everyone is, but, uh, and

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bumped into Robbie and his wife.

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And, uh, that was the first time I

had seen him in at least a decade.

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And, uh, we ended up connecting over,

uh, Come to see Davin at Eddie's

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Attic live And I didn't realize that

that was gonna be the first time he

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played and recorded something in years

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Jason English (Host): Yeah

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Dan Hannon: And I had never met him.

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I'd heard about Davin You

know for years and years.

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I mean It was probably early 2000s,

and I might be missing that mark, but

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I definitely remember people coming

up to me Saying man this kid Davin

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this kid incredible singer and for

whatever reason, I mean, there's,

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there's a huge contingent of great, um,

producers and music people in Atlanta.

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Jason English (Host): Right.

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Dan Hannon: you know, we're also

spread out that it's not really unusual

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that I didn't meet him, but, um, I'm

so glad that we crossed paths now

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and that, you know, um, I'm really

getting to know him and his music.

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And I can't believe it's been 20 years,

you know, since without working together.

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Cause I feel like.

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That's something that I wish we could

have been doing for two decades, you

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Jason English (Host): the last few weeks

when he's, when he's been here, when

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you think about the three weeks, the

four weeks, whatever it is, uh, when

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it ends up a year from now, two years

from now, what, what will be the memory?

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You know, what will this be?

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Uh,

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what

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will be imprinted on your, on your

heart and your brain, you know, uh,

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about the time with, with Davin?

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Dan Hannon: Well that, that thought is

typically informed by the role I play in

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the project where, you know, my goal is

to help the artist realize their vision.

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Not to make my record and not to

put Dan Annen's signature on it.

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And so, the best thing that could

happen is that, When recounting this

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experience, Davin thinks, man, that's the

record that I've always wanted to make.

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And I don't want to ever

work with anybody else.

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I don't want to ever work in any other

environment because this is the spot

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and this is, you know, the time that

I was totally understood as an artist

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and, and, uh, got to really create the

vision that, you know, and it's, believe

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it or not, it's kind of a, There's so

many experiences where artists go into

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the studio and, you know, they work

with an acclaimed producer or in the

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fantastic studio or, you know, they,

uh, Spend a lot of money or whatever in

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the you know, and they just never end

up with that project that they imagine

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and And having been an artist before

I'm sort of sensitive to that I guess

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and and also having learned that I've

I've gotten to Early on in my career.

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I was trying to make my record

not the artist's record.

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So

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That's that's my hope is that the

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the Davin just thinks man, this is This

is the record I've always wanted to

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Jason English (Host): is the

record I've always wanted to make.

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Excuse me?

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You good?

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Dan Hannon: Each time we open the session

for Nothing Lasts Forever, every time

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that song starts and he starts singing,

it's like, you know, chill bumps.

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So I feel like that one's

a standout for sure.

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And I, you know, you never know.

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Jason English (Host): never know.

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Yeah

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Dan Hannon: um, you got

your gut instincts, Cosmos

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is turning out phenomenal.

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And I love the way that track is feeling.

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Um,

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this new song on working title.

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I don't even think he has a title

yet, but that's a special tune

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Jason English (Host): tune.

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It's tonight.

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Right.

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Yeah, it just came back from break.

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Yeah, that's, that's

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Dan Hannon: Yeah.

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It just came back from

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Jason English (Host): of

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Dan Hannon: Yeah.

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Then that's, that's been the

story of this project too.

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Or it's like you start out aiming

for a schedule and then we're going

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to start at 11 and probably Yeah.

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Quit at 11.

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And so you go that first

day and you work until one.

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You think, okay, well we'll still

try to start at 11 tomorrow, and

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it turns into 1130 and then the,

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Dan Hannon: circadian rhythm

just gets all outta whack.

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Jason English (Host): No,

bless you and bless your wife

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and all the, all the family.

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So yeah, uh,

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Dan Hannon: they signed up for, I guess.

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Uh,

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Jason English (Host): but, uh,

well on that note, it's late.

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I'll, I'll let you get back to it, but

really appreciate, uh, your thoughts.

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great job.

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It's been fascinating to watch.

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I really appreciate you having me

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and good luck the rest of the way.

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Dan Hannon: that, man.

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I think it's an honor to be uh

participating on your podcast.

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I've I love it.

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Jason English (Host): thanks man.

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Yeah.

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Thanks, Dan.

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Take care, man.

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What's up, Davin?

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Davin McCoy: What's up, man?

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Jason English (Host): We're here in

Muscle Shoals, like we talked about.

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So, this is part 2 of our conversation.

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It's 11 o'clock at night on a Friday.

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Uh, are you hanging in there?

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Yeah.

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Davin McCoy: Yeah, I'm pretty good, man.

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Although, as soon as these

podcasts start, I freeze up.

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I feel like I've never

spoken to anyone before.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah,

I think you're right though.

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You always have something to say.

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Um, so when we talked in January,

you were, planning to come to Muscle

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Shoals for the, for the studio and

the recording of the album that you've

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been thinking about for, for a bit

that I know the timing of the start

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got delayed, but, uh, you've been

here most of March, is that right?

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And it's, it's basically

the last Friday of March.

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Was it what you expected?

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Davin McCoy: somewhat, but, uh, it's been

a harder process than I probably thought

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it would be, a little bit more taxing

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Jason English (Host): Taxing in what way?

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Just the

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Davin McCoy: Uh, just the kind

of the way we approach this one

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we were trying to avoid using

click tracks or any of that stuff.

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And there's never like a

band that just comes in.

362

:

So everything is kind of centered around

me having to perform the song live,

363

:

basically in the, in the live room.

364

:

And, and I, you know, got to kind of

do it four or five times and try to

365

:

get to that head space that I need

to be in with no crowd in front of

366

:

me with no energy coming back at me.

367

:

so it's kind of weird to

get that kind of, yeah.

368

:

Emotional without, which is you in a room.

369

:

It's like, you're trying to have to, you

kind of have to try to get back to the,

370

:

where you were when you first wrote the

song, which is not always easy to do

371

:

without a little help from your friends.

372

:

Oh, we got trains.

373

:

Jason English (Host): a

train in Muscle Shoals.

374

:

It's good.

375

:

Um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's hard work

and I, you know, you don't realize it, you

376

:

know, you just, when you, when you're just

a listener of music, you don't realize

377

:

the, uh, the process that, that you go

through and for you, you play, you know,

378

:

you play guitar and, uh, and you sing and

you don't just sing, you sing, sing, sing.

379

:

Right.

380

:

So it's.

381

:

Davin McCoy: If it goes right.

382

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah, it's,

uh, there's a lot of work there.

383

:

can you just walk us through, not,

you know, day by day or anything,

384

:

but like the first week, two weeks,

kind of what that looked like.

385

:

And then, and then I think you returned

to Atlanta briefly and then you came back.

386

:

Uh, can you just kind walk us through

387

:

Davin McCoy: I

388

:

Jason English (Host): what the flow was?

389

:

Davin McCoy: I got, so I came out

and um, We didn't do any, we didn't,

390

:

we had to kind of do pre production.

391

:

Uh, on the song.

392

:

I mean, some of them

were really ready to go.

393

:

I knew exactly what they were.

394

:

I didn't, uh, wasn't really

interested in, um, a lot of input,

395

:

but others needed pre production.

396

:

And we, because we had to change the

schedule around, um, we got, some of

397

:

them we would have to do kind of pre

production in the studio, which feels

398

:

like it bogs it down, even though normally

you would have just already done it.

399

:

You would have spent the time on it.

400

:

So the first couple of days, I

was a little frustrated at that.

401

:

sort of the pace, not with the team, with

me and, you know, kind of just everything.

402

:

And then I sort of settled into like,

Oh, well, you know, we didn't have

403

:

time to suss some of this stuff out.

404

:

So why wouldn't it take, you know,

why wouldn't it be kind of sluggish

405

:

getting some of these, uh, started?

406

:

bit And also it takes a couple days to,

you're in front of people, especially

407

:

here with Dan Hannan and Gary Nichols

and, uh, Clint and everybody here

408

:

is, everybody here's, their pedigree

is really, really strong and they're

409

:

all ridiculously, uh, good musicians.

410

:

and I don't know, I've written, I've been

out here and hung with them and written

411

:

with some of them and all that, but, It

also kind of takes a, you know, a little

412

:

bit to kind of, to get comfortable,

to be vulnerable, to, you know, I felt

413

:

kind of tight the first couple days.

414

:

So that was sort of the, the

start was, was I was going, Oh

415

:

fuck, how, how is this gonna work?

416

:

Jason English (Host): Well,

that's natural though, right?

417

:

Any new teams, you know,

coming together, you gotta, you

418

:

know, feel each other out and

419

:

Davin McCoy: Yeah, and you gotta just,

you know, It's, there's just definitely

420

:

a vulnerability that is required of you.

421

:

And when you're in front of people

that you're simultaneously empowering.

422

:

Having to be vulnerable in

front of and impressed by

423

:

Jason English (Host): Hmm.

424

:

Davin McCoy: them, it's, it's, uh,

it's a little harder to, cause you

425

:

just want to be good the whole time

and you're like, Oh my gosh, if I

426

:

fuck this take, if I fuck this, you

know, this part up, they're going to

427

:

think I suck, you know, or something.

428

:

and of course that's all in

your head, I got out here.

429

:

We, we figured out how we were going to

kind of go about this process doing it.

430

:

And, um, Not your traditional kind of

way how you normally record a record

431

:

these days And then we just I think

day three was when it really started

432

:

just kind of lift it off and we just

we figured out kind of the things we

433

:

needed to do and adjust in order to get

me sort of comfortable and And for Dan,

434

:

I think to figure out what I needed

from him in terms of The producer's

435

:

job is to manipulate you, you know?

436

:

So that takes a minute for a good

producer to figure out, like, what's

437

:

the way in which to motivate you to do

what he wants you to do without telling

438

:

you to do what he wants you to do.

439

:

Jason English (Host): So the first

week or two you were recording, I

440

:

guess, is the, is the industry term

tracking is that, am I picking that

441

:

Davin McCoy: Tracking, yeah, you're

442

:

Jason English (Host): All right.

443

:

I'm learning, I'm learning

tracking there's punching, right?

444

:

Punch

445

:

Davin McCoy: Punching,

yeah, punches, yeah.

446

:

Yeah, it's like when you go and make

an edit, basically, like a live edit.

447

:

Jason English (Host): it's, you

know, this whole thing has its own

448

:

nomenclature, which is really cool.

449

:

But no, so you're laid down tracks

the first week or two, right?

450

:

Yeah.

451

:

Davin McCoy: and the vocals on each song

which took surprisingly longer than you

452

:

would think to get, their performances

right because there's just not a lot of,

453

:

we don't have a lot of ability to comp

anything, we're not using a click, so I

454

:

kind of have to get it right and, um, and

that can be kind of stressful, you know.

455

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

456

:

And then you had other people

help with percussion and piano

457

:

and things like that, right?

458

:

So like Robbie and, and

then Dan's son, right?

459

:

Davin McCoy: Dan's

460

:

Jason English (Host): helped out

461

:

Davin McCoy: yeah, Eli Hannon, uh, he

helped with a lot of the production

462

:

and, uh, him and I got together on a

lot of the, uh, kind of some of the pads

463

:

we wanted in the keys parts and stuff

and, um, so I would sort of, you know,

464

:

clumsily play something that I had in

mind and then Eli would, would be able

465

:

to sort of turn it into an actual part

rather than sort of the unsophisticated

466

:

way in which I approach that stuff.

467

:

Jason English (Host): he's 19.

468

:

Davin McCoy: He's 19.

469

:

He's a freak of nature.

470

:

He's an alien.

471

:

He's a Martian.

472

:

He'll be, uh, he's probably the next,

like Jacob Collier, something like that.

473

:

Uh, he'll be in the world.

474

:

He'll be, he'll be known.

475

:

Jason English (Host): that's awesome

so so then you came back to Atlanta

476

:

after I guess, you know tracking And

then you came back this week, right

477

:

or have you been here a full week?

478

:

Davin McCoy: I came back.

479

:

Let's see.

480

:

I came, I came back on Sunday morning.

481

:

Jason English (Host): right, so

you've been here almost a week

482

:

Davin McCoy: yeah, I was home

for, I think like eight days or

483

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah so here

you're going back through each song and

484

:

Uh Yeah, we're doing a lot of the dubs,

485

:

Davin McCoy: Uh, yeah, pretty,

we're doing a lot of the dubs.

486

:

So just adding, you know, atmosphere and,

um, or if it needs percussion or if it

487

:

needs, you know, guitars or whatever.

488

:

and some of them we came back and I

just said like, we got to redo this.

489

:

so there was some

backtracking involved too.

490

:

Uh, we, we've been a little

bit cavalier with, with, but

491

:

you, you want to get it right.

492

:

I mean, you got to live with it.

493

:

And, um, so this week has been.

494

:

Much more exhausting than the first two.

495

:

The first two, you're thinking,

man, we've got a lot of time.

496

:

First two and a half, you're

like, we've got a lot of time.

497

:

And then you get back here and

you go like, we are staring at

498

:

the, you know, at the end of this.

499

:

And, uh, there's a lot to do.

500

:

Jason English (Host): So in January,

you were excited for this for a lot of

501

:

reasons, but I think you were talking

about the, your past experience,

502

:

you know, with other, you know, with

other recording sessions and, um, and

503

:

the need and your desire to get back

to like what Dava McCoy sounds like

504

:

mostly, you know, live and sort of,

you know, you're in your soul and, and

505

:

how people would see you, performing.

506

:

Do you think you achieve that

with what you've heard so far?

507

:

Right

508

:

Davin McCoy: stuff around some of

the vocals in the guitar that than I

509

:

initially kind of imagined there would be.

510

:

Um, but you get in there and you

kinda have to, you, you sort of

511

:

have to ask the song like, what?

512

:

You know, what does it need

here and what does it want?

513

:

And, um, so we've been trying to find

a, I think we have managed to find,

514

:

kind of, we were able to walk that

razor's edge of, um, of serving the

515

:

song to the best of our ability and

not, forgetting that, that we, we want

516

:

everything in there to be necessary,

but we also don't want people to miss it

517

:

so much when it's not there, you know?

518

:

So I think we kind of found that spot.

519

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah, so I you

know, you know, I love you, you know

520

:

with just a guitar Wherever you're

singing But what I what i've enjoyed just

521

:

being here kind of witnessing things is

uh, the piano and the strings You And

522

:

all these kind of surrounding sounds.

523

:

Usually I'm not a huge fan of that,

but what I've heard so far, it's

524

:

like, it completely amplifies you.

525

:

Davin McCoy: I, I hope God, that fucking

526

:

Jason English (Host): The train,

527

:

Davin McCoy: That thing

528

:

Jason English (Host): the train, it's

like the longest train ride in Alabama

529

:

Davin McCoy: fucking mad at

somebody, uh, that the engineer, the

530

:

conductor of that train, his ex-wife

certain has to live in this town.

531

:

He, because he is blown the

horn the entire way through

532

:

Jason English (Host): it's

11 at night on a Friday.

533

:

Davin McCoy: you get, so you get into

doing it and, and you, you lose, you

534

:

naturally lose a little perspective.

535

:

If you don't, you know, then

you're probably, you know, you're

536

:

probably missing something else.

537

:

I hope that, you know, that, that what

we've got on it is, is in service of

538

:

sort of the, the lyric and the vocal.

539

:

Um, You know, what were you?

540

:

You got out here

541

:

Jason English (Host): well, no, like

I, well, so like I, you know, I came to

542

:

know you just playing around Atlanta.

543

:

With you and your guitar, right?

544

:

And, um, and that's what I love.

545

:

And then I would listen to

your older albums, you know, on

546

:

Spotify, and I'm like, it just,

it just doesn't sound like Davin.

547

:

This stuff that I'm

hearing sounds like you.

548

:

That's my, that's my point, right?

549

:

Like that, even with, with all

the things surrounding it, and

550

:

it's, it's not a lot, right?

551

:

It's, but it's, uh, yeah,

so I'm, I'm excited.

552

:

Davin McCoy: that's good.

553

:

That's good to hear that.

554

:

yeah, I think it doesn't have any kind

of like it doesn't have a lot of the

555

:

sparkly and shiny stuff that it's still,

I think, appropriately dark, you know,

556

:

everything that's kind of going on.

557

:

And, um, And so those little, you

know, what we've tried to look for with

558

:

most of the stuff we've added is those

little moments where we can either

559

:

kind of punctuate the darkness or the,

you know, the, the mood, if it's a

560

:

dark mood or if it's a, you know, or,

561

:

isolated or, but like

562

:

uh, kind of, you know, provide like

these subtle kind of breaths and lifts

563

:

and, you know, just little things that,

that make you feel like there's, you

564

:

know, You know, things aren't always

great, or you might be missing somebody,

565

:

or you might be lonely, or you might,

um, be searching for something, or

566

:

you might be feeling isolated, or

uncomfortable, or whatever it is.

567

:

Jason English (Host): in our first

conversation you were talking about, you

568

:

know, it's been a few years and you've

got, you know, a decent backlog of songs.

569

:

And I think the number that you were

kind of contemplating was potentially

570

:

not having 15 songs on the album,

but probably 15 songs to work with.

571

:

And you've settled on what?

572

:

10, 11.

573

:

I guess my point is it's

fewer than the 15, right?

574

:

So like, I guess, talk us through

what, why did some make it and

575

:

some not, you know, and it was

that kind of part of this process.

576

:

Davin McCoy: it's funny is that

so the ones that were definitely

577

:

going on, um, we kind of, of

course, approached those first.

578

:

All right, that's what I

kind of presented first.

579

:

And then I would, um, I would get

with Clint and with Dan and, um,

580

:

Clint Ingersoll, by the way, he's

a great songwriter from Nashville.

581

:

He's part of the team here, but he, uh, I

would get with them and, when they would

582

:

say, what are we going to track next?

583

:

What should we put on the board next?

584

:

Um, I would go, well, let me think

for a little bit and then I'd get a

585

:

guitar and I would kind of go through

a few things and then I would present

586

:

those few things kind of to them.

587

:

This one's finished.

588

:

This one is almost finished.

589

:

This one's finished.

590

:

And I just sort of play them

and it didn't take me very long.

591

:

They would go first, they

would go, Oh, that one.

592

:

Let's do that's great, blah,

blah, blah, play the other

593

:

one, play, play that, that one.

594

:

That's great.

595

:

And I go, okay, good.

596

:

That's what I thought.

597

:

And then it didn't take me very long

when I would do that to watch their face.

598

:

And I could, I'd be like,

Oh, you hate this one.

599

:

You hate, you despise this one.

600

:

No, we're just listening.

601

:

Um, so it became kind of easy

to, To kind of suss them out.

602

:

and the other ones just might not

have been, you know, there's one that

603

:

is, um, was kind of written about.

604

:

It just didn't, you know, there's

one that I think is, is a pretty good

605

:

song, and I, and I really do like it.

606

:

It means a lot to me.

607

:

I have not played it a whole ton

because it doesn't, um, it sort of

608

:

doesn't always fit into what I'm doing.

609

:

And, uh, so, you know.

610

:

That happens a decent amount.

611

:

Um, so, you know, that might

be one for another project.

612

:

Um, there's another one that, uh, it

felt like it was gonna, it felt like

613

:

we already had kind of the anchor.

614

:

Um, like we'd already found

the depth, like, of where the

615

:

anchor on this record would be.

616

:

Um, song wise, the kind of

the two that would be it.

617

:

And this one, sort of, it felt

like an anchor that didn't, like

618

:

it wanted to be an anchor, but

it wouldn't reach the bottom.

619

:

You know what I mean?

620

:

So it was just sort of It, it didn't

feel, it felt like it was, um,

621

:

Jason English (Host): And that didn't

make the, that's not gonna make the

622

:

Davin McCoy: It's not

gonna make the record.

623

:

Yeah.

624

:

That, that, so that one

of them was that way.

625

:

And, and these are still songs that

I'll probably, 'cause the ones that

626

:

I brought thinking they might make it

are, are songs that I really do love.

627

:

It just was when we were kind of wrapping

our head around the whole project.

628

:

I mean, even one of them, the river,

which I wrote a long time ago,

629

:

I didn't when we recorded that.

630

:

And I thought there's no way

that's going on the record.

631

:

And, um.

632

:

And it's, and it's, along with a couple

of others, it's one that I wrote,

633

:

just doesn't

634

:

it just doesn't really always go with the

theme, that's what we were thinking, but

635

:

were thinking.

636

:

the river though does, it just was written

in a different sort of time period for me

637

:

than, and um, And so, but then we started

production around it, and in fact I'll

638

:

give you a good quote from Dan Hannan.

639

:

Jason English (Host): Hannan.

640

:

Oh boy.

641

:

Davin McCoy: I said, you know, I don't

like the, I don't necessarily love the

642

:

dynamic range of the song, and I, I, you

know, maybe it's, maybe we can find a

643

:

way to kind of get the lifts that I want

644

:

Jason English (Host): want

645

:

Davin McCoy: out of it with, uh,

with maybe a harmony and with some,

646

:

um, Some, some pads and some other

instruments and, and uh, and he looked

647

:

at me deadpan and goes, you mean

you want me to fucking produce it?

648

:

And I was like, yeah, okay,

649

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah, there you

650

:

Davin McCoy: Yeah, yeah, fair enough.

651

:

Um,

652

:

the question?

653

:

Jason English (Host): No, like

the, you know, the, we're just

654

:

talking about the song choices and

whittling them down in the process.

655

:

So I hope to talk to you again

when everything is kind of wrapped

656

:

up and you've got the album and

the track listing and everything.

657

:

Cause I'd like to go through

them a little bit more detail.

658

:

So without giving away too much,

which song surprised you the most?

659

:

You mentioned the River, but is there

any other song that surprised you?

660

:

Without giving away too much?

661

:

I really

662

:

Davin McCoy: there's one

called nothing lasts forever.

663

:

That kind of came in.

664

:

Uh,

665

:

going to

666

:

I, I

667

:

Oh wow.

668

:

I really thought I was gonna

669

:

that.

670

:

This one, it

671

:

I really thought I was gonna play

that for them and they were gonna go.

672

:

What's next?

673

:

They were gonna go like, what?

674

:

Okay, not that one.

675

:

What else?

676

:

and I kind of qualified it that way, too.

677

:

I said, I don't, you know, This

one, I can hear it in my head.

678

:

I know that it can be good.

679

:

I don't have it quite where

it probably should be.

680

:

But I think if I can have a sounding

board, you know, for it and do

681

:

some pre production and bounce some

ideas off of you, I think that you

682

:

can probably help me get it from

my head to, um, you know, to tape.

683

:

And, uh That one surprised

all of us, actually.

684

:

Um, it was about to be dead in the water.

685

:

It was real close to

being dead in the water.

686

:

And then, I think Clint, he told one of

the interns, go get a baritone guitar.

687

:

And so when he brought the baritone

guitar back and he handed it to me and

688

:

we, Started kind of fucking around with

it that way and then we all looked at

689

:

each other and was like, oh shit this

is good and so that was kind of an odd

690

:

one because it sort of the baritone

guitar sort of like it was it was

691

:

30 seconds from We were gonna move

692

:

Jason English (Host): Oh my gosh.

693

:

Well, I mean, just, you

know, spoiler alert.

694

:

Well, yeah, I mean, they, I

think, you know, you had shared

695

:

that with me, as a preview.

696

:

And, uh, I just, you know, the back of

an Uber, I might've gotten emotional.

697

:

So, you know, it may have been because

I was exhausted from a work trip.

698

:

I don't know, but I think it was

the song and, uh, the moment.

699

:

So that, that, that, you know,

that, that's going to be a good one.

700

:

Davin McCoy: a video, but you

only sent me like 15 seconds.

701

:

Of the, kind of.

702

:

So I knew it was

703

:

Jason English (Host): yeah.

704

:

It was a video, but you only

sent me like, it was like 15

705

:

Davin McCoy: looking for.

706

:

Jason English (Host): the, uh,

Kind of the, after the big lift.

707

:

And so I knew it was like, okay, there's

something there that sounds really cool.

708

:

And then when I heard

the whole thing, it was

709

:

Davin McCoy: when I heard the whole

thing, it was just like Like a

710

:

really positive reaction to just

that 15 seconds of me just recording

711

:

the, you know, the, the monitors

playing it and, uh, with my phone.

712

:

And so I was like, yeah, this, the, so

the next day I woke up and I was like, I

713

:

was real excited to get back to that one.

714

:

And I think, I think that

one is, uh, really, really

715

:

kind of a standout one on the

716

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah, I think

everyone's going to love that.

717

:

Um, so you talked about the difficult

process, uh, but you know, we're, you're

718

:

sort of at the end, you know, you're

on the whatever the 10 yard line, it

719

:

feels like 15 yard line, maybe, um,

going in for the, for the touchdown.

720

:

Davin McCoy: Or field goal.

721

:

Your

722

:

Jason English (Host): Where you're

recording obviously Muscle Shoals, which

723

:

we talked about it in January, but Since

being here at Ivy Manor and just you

724

:

know, I know it's a difficult process

But the setup is incredible and the team

725

:

you have is incredible like has it has

that met or exceeded your expectations?

726

:

Davin McCoy: the team

you have is incredible.

727

:

Has that met or exceeded

your expectations?

728

:

That's helpful.

729

:

Jason English (Host):

to me, because they're

730

:

Davin McCoy: Yeah, they'll be like,

or they'll tell me like, Hey, there's

731

:

this opportunity and it's really

like exciting and blah, blah, blah.

732

:

And I'll go like, okay,

well, we'll see, you know,

733

:

Jason English (Host): and

734

:

Davin McCoy: And, uh, and cause

in this business, you just

735

:

kind of learn to be that way.

736

:

It's, it's, it's rough.

737

:

And if you tell, you know, if you

get really excited about every.

738

:

Jason English (Host): um,

739

:

Davin McCoy: Every kind of opportunity

that comes up you'll You know they most

740

:

you know in this business a lot of them

Just kind of they don't pan out and people

741

:

are you know over promise or they're

full shit or and it certainly if you go

742

:

Tell your friends you'll just end up look

they'll just roll their eyes every time

743

:

you tell them something exciting because

you know half the time Something goes, you

744

:

know, there's just so many moving parts

and it's there's so much luck involved

745

:

But I, when I was coming out here, I kind

of, for whatever reason, I knew that it

746

:

was going to be, I, I, I might not have, I

might've thought it would be, the process

747

:

would have been a little bit easier,

748

:

a little bit

749

:

um,

750

:

but I but I kind of knew, and it,

and it exceeded those expectations.

751

:

I mean, just the, the, I, I mentioned,

you know, how important the, the

752

:

camaraderie and the, you know, the,

the friendships and all that, that

753

:

shit is when you're recording a record.

754

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

755

:

Davin McCoy: And, um, Yeah, I mean, I, I

knew we were already buddies, me and most

756

:

of these guys, but I, and I knew we would

be friends when we left, but I didn't,

757

:

you know, I, I, I wasn't expecting us to

be family, you know, like just straight

758

:

up family and, and we, we've become that.

759

:

Um, in fact, when I, after the first

two and a half weeks out here, I, I went

760

:

home and it was great cause I got to,

um, You know if I if I didn't have kids

761

:

I would have been depressed when I got

home for sure But my kids obviously that

762

:

elevated me because I was just so excited

to get my hands around them every day.

763

:

But um But I but I would wake up and

go like I'm not gonna go have coffee

764

:

with Clint and Dan and you know what?

765

:

I mean?

766

:

It was it was uh, it was kind

of I mean, which I guess speaks

767

:

kind of volumes around who they

are and how great it is out here.

768

:

And the ping pong's been good.

769

:

I haven't really, I think I've crossed

the bridge here, I think I told you

770

:

the other day, three times since I,

I've left this, I've left Ivy Manor,

771

:

I mean, to go to the gas station.

772

:

And I think I've gone and, uh, I've

gone and eaten at a restaurant three

773

:

times the whole time I've been here.

774

:

I've been just, it's been,

uh, it's been long days,

775

:

Jason English (Host): so for, uh,

for those of us that just don't

776

:

muscle shoals because of Netflix and

stuff, but as the artist that's here.

777

:

Like, do you feel the, like, you

know, after spending, you know,

778

:

spending time here, especially at

the studio, is the mystique real, you

779

:

know, for you, or is it, is it more

just like legend and lore, you know,

780

:

Davin McCoy: you know, I

don't want to upset anybody.

781

:

Um, I, you know me, I'm not, I don't get

into the woo woo stuff at all, you know?

782

:

So, um, but do I think that

there's an energy here?

783

:

Absolutely.

784

:

I do.

785

:

Um, I think it's probably because,

you know, at some point all the

786

:

greats wanted to come here and

record and so many of them did.

787

:

And now to this day, people that

really, are in this shit for

788

:

the right reasons and stuff.

789

:

They come, they, they're drawn to here.

790

:

So, there is a, um, you know,

the, the ratio of, of musicians

791

:

in this town that are just

792

:

know, it's,

793

:

like the kind, in my opinion,

kind of the right kind of people.

794

:

adult,

795

:

That ratio is really, really, really,

really extraordinarily high here.

796

:

And, um,

797

:

um, You know, it's and I'm not you

know, I'm not gonna dog on Nashville,

798

:

but The ratio in Nashville is really

really really really extraordinarily

799

:

low so there's a difference with that

800

:

And and and if you if you come all the

way out here to do this like You're

801

:

you know, whatever is driving you

to do that is is It's fucking real.

802

:

I mean, you know, otherwise you don't,

this is in the middle of nowhere.

803

:

There's nothing here.

804

:

Jason English (Host): it's a weird,

strange, awesome place, you know,

805

:

Michael, the, uh, the, the guy that

owns the studio, he was telling

806

:

me that yes, there's fame studio.

807

:

That's the famous one

that are the original one.

808

:

That's the famous one.

809

:

There's like muscle show sound the nut

house, but he was saying that there's 10

810

:

studios within 10 minutes of this spot.

811

:

And he said, they're all booked.

812

:

Basically all the time.

813

:

Which is wild to think about

here in Muscle Shoals, Alabama.

814

:

Davin McCoy: And, and they don't

really compete with each other at all.

815

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah,

that's what he was saying,

816

:

Davin McCoy: all, it's, it's

817

:

Jason English (Host): Mostly friendly,

818

:

Davin McCoy: it's symbiotic,

819

:

Jason English (Host): they let

each, He was saying that they let

820

:

each other, you know, borrow gear

821

:

Davin McCoy: All the time.

822

:

Jason English (Host): if,

823

:

Davin McCoy: Um,

824

:

Jason English (Host): if someone needs

something, so that's, that's really cool.

825

:

Davin McCoy: you get kind of

run out if you don't come.

826

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

827

:

Davin McCoy: If you don't come

correct in that kind of sense, I

828

:

think they just run you out of here.

829

:

Um, and it is pretty neat.

830

:

It's fascinating because you just don't

831

:

Jason English (Host): it's like they're

832

:

Davin McCoy: again, it's like they're

all in the trenches here together.

833

:

It's like it's because

there's nothing the fuck else

834

:

Jason English (Host): so there's

nothing Well, I was talking to Gary

835

:

Nichols, you know, earlier and you

know, he's, he's born here, right?

836

:

He was born down the

837

:

Davin McCoy: which makes perfect sense.

838

:

Jason English (Host): No, it's great.

839

:

And he, uh, I was like, I asked

him about the mystique too.

840

:

Cause it, you know.

841

:

It's part of his bloodline.

842

:

And, uh, I'm like, listen, there's

other, there's rivers other in other

843

:

places of the country, you know, cause

a lot of people talk about the energy

844

:

of the river and, you know, uh, and I'm

like, there's other rivers elsewhere.

845

:

Like, what is it about, you know, Alabama?

846

:

And, um, you know, he, he's like, listen,

it's, it's, it's the dirt, it's the

847

:

river, it's the energy, it's the people.

848

:

Um, so, you know, there

is something, I think.

849

:

I

850

:

Davin McCoy: definitely something because

this wouldn't be here if there wasn't.

851

:

I mean, for sure, there's

got to be something, um,

852

:

Jason English (Host): you,

will you come back here?

853

:

Do you think if, uh, if you have

the opportunity to do another album,

854

:

Davin McCoy: uh, oh, in a

heartbeat, yeah, in a heartbeat.

855

:

And, um, Yeah, and it is interesting.

856

:

Gary can too.

857

:

He can, he can sell me.

858

:

He could, he could almost

make me believe in ghosts.

859

:

You know what I mean?

860

:

He's, he, it's, uh, you just, he talks and

you just, it's, it's coming from just such

861

:

a real place with, with Gary and, and, uh,

862

:

Jason English (Host): he, I did ask

him about the origin of muscle shoals.

863

:

Cause I thought he would be the authority.

864

:

Davin McCoy: say?

865

:

Well,

866

:

Jason English (Host): for with him, but

he he said it's a combination of the Map

867

:

of the river looking like a flexed arm a

868

:

Davin McCoy: Oh, that was the other one.

869

:

I forgot

870

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah that he

thinks it's from that But he actually

871

:

said listen the reality is he thinks

it's you know a lot of muscles And

872

:

they just misspelled it Cause he's,

he's like, it is Alabama after all.

873

:

Davin McCoy: Well, when I first learned

about the fact that nobody really

874

:

knows, there's no consensus on why

it's muscle sores, I was sitting with

875

:

seven or eight people that are all

from this area, Gary being one of them.

876

:

And all of them Disagree.

877

:

I mean, they were like there

were three camps and they

878

:

were all like, no, no, no, no.

879

:

And I was like, Hey, I'm sorry I asked.

880

:

I didn't, I didn't mean

to cause any friction.

881

:

Um,

882

:

Jason English (Host): to

do another album, then I

883

:

Davin McCoy: would definitely, um,

I mean, let me hear the finished

884

:

product first, you know, but

885

:

Jason English (Host): think it's, I

don't think it sounds pretty good.

886

:

Um,

887

:

Davin McCoy: I'm pretty

excited about it being done.

888

:

So this is a great thing

about Muscle Shoals.

889

:

Um, the, the Shoals Music Makers

890

:

Jason English (Host): Oh nice.

891

:

Davin McCoy: is a, uh,

892

:

it's a

893

:

it's a part of the, I guess the city

council or whatnot, and they, um, in

894

:

order to kind of stimulate, uh, and

drive the music economy here, they take

895

:

submissions and they'll give you grants.

896

:

And so this is a really cool thing.

897

:

So we were staring, you know,

at the deadline and I'm looking

898

:

at the board going, we haven't

crossed off enough things yet.

899

:

And, uh, and it's crunch time.

900

:

Uh, Michael, the, the, the guy, Michael

Wright, the guy you mentioned that owns,

901

:

uh, Ivy Manor, he had submitted, when we

first did some tapes, he had submitted

902

:

that to this, to the, Muscle Shoals Music

Makers and so I found out, I guess two

903

:

days, was it two days ago or yesterday?

904

:

that, uh, that they had accepted,

they, they'd offered me a grant.

905

:

So they're actually, our studio time

is set to be up this Sunday, but Muscle

906

:

Shoals Music Makers, they gave me a grant

to, to, to do another seven days here.

907

:

So I'll be coming back in

April, which is amazing.

908

:

To, uh, so we, we kind of got

a little bit of a break there.

909

:

Um, We still treated it as if we're

have to be finished Sunday because, um,

910

:

I need that deadline to get me there.

911

:

But, uh, but it's good because

we're going to get to listen to.

912

:

basically the finished record, but instead

of it being finished, we're going to be

913

:

able to listen to it for three, you know,

three weeks or something and then come

914

:

back and change whatever we want, which

is a rare, I mean, you just, unless you

915

:

have unlimited money, that's, that's,

916

:

Jason English (Host): to do that.

917

:

Davin McCoy: rarely happens.

918

:

So yeah, they, I think they offered

a grand of, you know, I think

919

:

like right around 8, 000 bucks.

920

:

Um, um, The only thing they ask for is for

me to tag them in, uh, social media stuff,

921

:

I'm grateful, very grateful to the, to

them that, that, I appreciate that guys.

922

:

Jason English (Host): know, that's great.

923

:

Uh, so you'll come back in April, I guess.

924

:

What's the timing do you think after

that to have everything kind of

925

:

mastered and finalized and the release,

you know, the release timing, but

926

:

what's your best guess at this point?

927

:

Davin McCoy: well, I'm, it'll be, I'm

guessing it'll, we'll have the masters,

928

:

probably within two or three days of that.

929

:

So, so end of April Masters will

have, then I'll, I'll be working on

930

:

the album art and, liner notes and

all that stuff, between now and then.

931

:

So hopefully that'll be kind of

ready to go if we're, we're going to

932

:

press vinyl, but that is the backup.

933

:

we're still kind of like, we're

still kind of figuring out a strategy

934

:

if we're going to waterfall it

or just release it as one unit.

935

:

But we're gonna, uh, we're gonna do like

a big marketing push for the Spotify

936

:

and for all that to get it Where we

want it to be and everything in place

937

:

You know, I'll probably want to do a

release show, um, around, like, maybe

938

:

a soft one, maybe Eddie's or something.

939

:

Um, I'm gonna guess July.

940

:

I'm gonna guess

941

:

Jason English (Host): That's good.

942

:

That'll be good.

943

:

Davin McCoy: So, if you're

a betting man, September.

944

:

Don't

945

:

Jason English (Host): Don't say that.

946

:

Davin McCoy: that.

947

:

Um, we, we're more focused on

getting everything in place.

948

:

to be able to start next year on

the road and, and, and, and pushing

949

:

it and promoting it and playing it.

950

:

Uh, that is my, that's

my number one focus.

951

:

So, and, and that seems like a long time.

952

:

But it's not.

953

:

I mean, six months is not a

lot of, you know, I mean that

954

:

we're going to have to be.

955

:

So, it's not going to delay.

956

:

It's definitely the

Atlanta release and stuff.

957

:

I mean, we'll have that shit going.

958

:

I talked the other day

with Robbie about it.

959

:

Um, I think that if we are gonna push

the digital release, or we're gonna

960

:

waterfall it, however we decide to go

about it, then, um, if we push that back,

961

:

I'll get, we'll do like a limited run of

CDs, cause we weren't planning on doing

962

:

CDs, cause who the fuck doesn't get CDs?

963

:

Jason English (Host): something

in their hand, though,

964

:

Davin McCoy: Yeah, so we'll do a

limited run of those and do a release

965

:

party in Atlanta with those, and just,

um, ask that nobody put them online,

966

:

you know, before the digital release.

967

:

Um, so that's, that's might be the plan.

968

:

We'll see.

969

:

Jason English (Host): Alright.

970

:

Well, we ended the uh, conversation

in January talking about,

971

:

Davin McCoy: you better tell me

about how you spanked me at ping

972

:

Jason English (Host): I'm just gonna

973

:

Davin McCoy: I saw you

look at that fucking table.

974

:

Jason English (Host): social media's

blowing up, everybody wants to know.

975

:

They're like DMing me, they're like,

hey, did you, did you guys actually play

976

:

ping pong when you're in Muscle Shoals?

977

:

And uh, I mean you got me the first game.

978

:

Uh, and you

979

:

Davin McCoy: Did I win the first one?

980

:

Jason English (Host):

me to, yeah, you won the

981

:

Davin McCoy: and then we

didn't play again, right?

982

:

Jason English (Host): do you want

to give the people an update or

983

:

Davin McCoy: I think, let's see, we

played that first one and I won and then,

984

:

uh, and then I, and then we ate lunch

and then, uh, started recording again.

985

:

Right?

986

:

Is that am I missing anything?

987

:

Jason English (Host): all this.

988

:

Yeah.

989

:

Davin McCoy: Yeah, you see, you

990

:

Jason English (Host): point.

991

:

It's so late in the, in the process.

992

:

Davin McCoy: delirious and delusional.

993

:

Uh, yeah.

994

:

Yeah, Jason.

995

:

You did exactly what I was

afraid you were going to do.

996

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

997

:

Davin McCoy: You spanked me and,

uh, And you found that forehand.

998

:

And then I was forced

to try to just play on

999

:

Jason English (Host): on

:

00:54:20,483 --> 00:54:22,253

Davin McCoy: the, the, on your left side.

:

00:54:22,253 --> 00:54:24,243

I was trying to just

play to your backside.

:

00:54:24,302 --> 00:54:25,486

to your backside.

:

00:54:25,486 --> 00:54:25,880

Backhand.

:

00:54:26,013 --> 00:54:26,583

Backside.

:

00:54:26,670 --> 00:54:27,064

Jason English (Host): matter.

:

00:54:27,064 --> 00:54:27,459

It

:

00:54:27,643 --> 00:54:28,083

Davin McCoy: backside.

:

00:54:28,113 --> 00:54:30,093

And, uh, then you found that.

:

00:54:30,222 --> 00:54:31,406

Jason English (Host): And we're about

:

00:54:31,493 --> 00:54:32,583

Davin McCoy: And we're

about to play though.

:

00:54:32,763 --> 00:54:33,803

We're about to play now.

:

00:54:34,103 --> 00:54:36,363

When this is, when we're

done with this, this podcast.

:

00:54:36,433 --> 00:54:37,403

Jason English (Host):

This is getting late.

:

00:54:37,403 --> 00:54:37,763

I don't know.

:

00:54:37,833 --> 00:54:38,223

I gotta go.

:

00:54:38,323 --> 00:54:39,133

Davin McCoy: we're gonna play.

:

00:54:39,653 --> 00:54:40,543

You're going to play me again.

:

00:54:41,013 --> 00:54:46,053

Uh, I think that, uh, yeah,

what I was afraid of was real.

:

00:54:46,153 --> 00:54:48,213

You, you came out here and

beat the shit out of me.

:

00:54:48,328 --> 00:54:50,228

Jason English (Host): It's just,

I have experience, that's all.

:

00:54:50,248 --> 00:54:51,958

I'm 12 years old or whatever.

:

00:54:51,958 --> 00:54:54,008

So, that's the, I think that's the trick.

:

00:54:54,033 --> 00:54:54,463

Davin McCoy: Yeah.

:

00:54:54,473 --> 00:54:58,523

Well, people think that because of

the videos that our social media

:

00:54:58,523 --> 00:55:02,403

guy has posted, they, it's always me

cursing when I'm playing people and

:

00:55:02,403 --> 00:55:06,713

they think that I lose and you're the

first person that's come out here.

:

00:55:06,713 --> 00:55:10,193

And I lost the first couple of days when

I got out here, excited to get back in it.

:

00:55:10,893 --> 00:55:14,493

I, the running score of

me and Dan Hannan is.

:

00:55:15,033 --> 00:55:16,633

I promise you I'm not exaggerating.

:

00:55:16,643 --> 00:55:19,683

It's like 35 games to 12 or something.

:

00:55:20,123 --> 00:55:24,993

Me and Gary Nichols, Gary Nichols

and I, it's, I don't, we've, we

:

00:55:24,993 --> 00:55:27,483

haven't been able to play that much

him and I, but I think it's like,

:

00:55:27,883 --> 00:55:30,013

it's nine or 10 to nothing games.

:

00:55:30,773 --> 00:55:31,693

Uh, so,

:

00:55:31,718 --> 00:55:33,608

Jason English (Host): so they're

going to be so excited that you're

:

00:55:33,618 --> 00:55:34,938

announcing this to the world.

:

00:55:34,973 --> 00:55:37,523

Davin McCoy: oh, I'm going to

have Blake put it on social media.

:

00:55:37,963 --> 00:55:39,983

I mean, for sure he was

supposed to be doing that.

:

00:55:39,983 --> 00:55:44,253

I told him like every day, you're going to

give an update on the score of the game.

:

00:55:44,713 --> 00:55:47,113

Cause every, cause the videos

he put up of me playing, it

:

00:55:47,113 --> 00:55:48,153

looks like I'm losing all the

:

00:55:48,208 --> 00:55:50,188

Jason English (Host): like

you're getting your, yeah.

:

00:55:50,533 --> 00:55:51,203

Davin McCoy: Um,

:

00:55:51,418 --> 00:55:52,038

Jason English (Host): Anyway, it's been

:

00:55:52,283 --> 00:55:52,993

Davin McCoy: we're about to play.

:

00:55:53,078 --> 00:55:54,648

Jason English (Host): It's

a, it's been fun, but, uh,

:

00:55:54,763 --> 00:55:55,493

Davin McCoy: Yeah, you're good.

:

00:55:55,503 --> 00:55:56,703

You're good at ping pong, by the way.

:

00:55:56,703 --> 00:55:58,393

So congratulations.

:

00:55:58,458 --> 00:55:59,058

Jason English (Host): Thanks to Evan.

:

00:55:59,188 --> 00:56:01,018

Um, all right, well,

thanks for having me here.

:

00:56:01,038 --> 00:56:03,198

It's been, it's been

awesome to, to witness.

:

00:56:03,688 --> 00:56:05,048

Uh, the album's going to be in.

:

00:56:05,628 --> 00:56:06,338

Incredible.

:

00:56:06,768 --> 00:56:08,068

And I'm really excited about it.

:

00:56:08,068 --> 00:56:08,988

So, yeah, thanks so

:

00:56:09,133 --> 00:56:11,013

Davin McCoy: I'm so glad you

came out and hung out, man.

:

00:56:11,193 --> 00:56:12,833

I'm really, really, really glad you did.

:

00:56:13,073 --> 00:56:13,993

Wait, what do you think?

:

00:56:14,003 --> 00:56:17,573

Let's get your thoughts, by

the way, because all your, your

:

00:56:17,853 --> 00:56:18,733

friends all listen to this.

:

00:56:18,733 --> 00:56:19,863

They want to know what Jason thinks.

:

00:56:20,093 --> 00:56:23,173

What's your, what's your thoughts

on kind of watching the process

:

00:56:23,173 --> 00:56:24,343

of how this shit unfolds?

:

00:56:25,278 --> 00:56:26,958

Jason English (Host): incredibly tedious.

:

00:56:27,568 --> 00:56:29,088

It is so tedious.

:

00:56:29,648 --> 00:56:31,028

I mean, and maybe it's just

:

00:56:31,271 --> 00:56:31,784

Davin McCoy: just

:

00:56:32,248 --> 00:56:34,978

Jason English (Host): how, you

know, The team has collectively

:

00:56:34,988 --> 00:56:36,538

chosen how to do it this time.

:

00:56:36,568 --> 00:56:39,828

I don't know if this is normal, but

one, it's, it's very impressive.

:

00:56:39,848 --> 00:56:41,208

Cause each of the guys,

:

00:56:41,530 --> 00:56:42,043

Davin McCoy: me

:

00:56:42,298 --> 00:56:44,558

Jason English (Host): some of these

guys are very soft spoken, you know,

:

00:56:44,558 --> 00:56:46,658

they'll say three words the whole day.

:

00:56:46,728 --> 00:56:47,028

Right.

:

00:56:47,028 --> 00:56:49,128

But when they say

something, it's meaningful.

:

00:56:49,698 --> 00:56:52,798

Um, but like my point on that

is like, everybody brings

:

00:56:52,798 --> 00:56:54,068

something different to the table.

:

00:56:54,438 --> 00:57:02,338

Um, Dan, I can't wait for his

masterclass on producing with a minor in.

:

00:57:02,773 --> 00:57:07,193

Using that software program that

uses I mean, he, he reminds me of

:

00:57:07,193 --> 00:57:10,203

my kids playing fortnight, you know,

it's just like I can't keep up.

:

00:57:10,323 --> 00:57:13,673

Uh, but like, yeah, I

mean, it's It's tedious.

:

00:57:13,783 --> 00:57:19,093

Uh in a good way, you know, because

it's like And what's crazy is the, the,

:

00:57:19,163 --> 00:57:22,753

everyone's collective ears are so precise.

:

00:57:23,383 --> 00:57:28,003

You guys all pick up on the

smallest things and, uh, I

:

00:57:28,003 --> 00:57:29,043

mean, even tonight, right?

:

00:57:29,063 --> 00:57:33,273

You're doing these overdubs or

whatever, and you're in two rooms,

:

00:57:33,623 --> 00:57:36,883

two rooms away and you're like, wait,

you guys aren't going to use that.

:

00:57:36,883 --> 00:57:37,193

Are you?

:

00:57:37,223 --> 00:57:38,923

And it's the one thing we changed.

:

00:57:39,063 --> 00:57:42,873

Or I say we, I was, I was just

watching, but it was, they spent 10

:

00:57:42,873 --> 00:57:46,593

minutes fixing this one bit and you

picked up on the fact that it was

:

00:57:46,593 --> 00:57:47,943

different than what you had remembered.

:

00:57:48,448 --> 00:57:52,038

I'm like, and when you left, I was

like, how did he, how did he hear that?

:

00:57:52,098 --> 00:57:53,288

You know, it, but you heard

:

00:57:53,478 --> 00:57:54,568

Davin McCoy: It's, yeah, well, you,

:

00:57:54,708 --> 00:57:55,158

Jason English (Host): you know,

:

00:57:55,416 --> 00:57:55,784

Davin McCoy: crazy.

:

00:57:55,784 --> 00:57:56,152

My

:

00:57:56,198 --> 00:57:56,748

Jason English (Host): it's crazy.

:

00:57:56,748 --> 00:57:59,668

So anyway, so my point is very tedious.

:

00:57:59,758 --> 00:58:02,378

You know, when you listen to a

three and a half minute song,

:

00:58:03,218 --> 00:58:04,438

I don't know how many hours

:

00:58:04,583 --> 00:58:04,803

Davin McCoy: gonna

:

00:58:05,038 --> 00:58:07,738

Jason English (Host): man hours there

are and putting that together, but it's,

:

00:58:08,238 --> 00:58:10,028

it's way more than I would have thought.

:

00:58:10,134 --> 00:58:12,884

Davin McCoy: like you sit in there

while we comp and stuff and it's like,

:

00:58:12,924 --> 00:58:16,644

I can't, I can't, I have to leave, you

know, and I, I might have mentioned

:

00:58:16,644 --> 00:58:20,219

that on the last podcast, but I have to

leave cause I, it'll take, three times

:

00:58:20,219 --> 00:58:23,759

as long if I sit in there for some of it

because I'll nitpick every single thing.

:

00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:26,229

And that's not the point

of what we're doing here.

:

00:58:26,229 --> 00:58:29,259

It's like, it's not about, you're

not trying to polish anything.

:

00:58:29,259 --> 00:58:31,979

It's just, we're just trying to,

you know, to be raw and emotional.

:

00:58:32,249 --> 00:58:35,719

But yeah, you, you leave hating the

songs because you've heard them so

:

00:58:35,719 --> 00:58:38,459

many times or you've heard the same

line over and over again while we,

:

00:58:38,734 --> 00:58:39,244

Jason English (Host): Um,

:

00:58:39,299 --> 00:58:43,049

Davin McCoy: uh, adjust the, like a

drum, a drum hit, you know, or whatever.

:

00:58:43,104 --> 00:58:44,434

Jason English (Host): no, it's, uh, yeah.

:

00:58:44,434 --> 00:58:47,624

And then the instrumentation,

you know, the, the gear and the

:

00:58:47,624 --> 00:58:50,974

equipment that, I mean, I'm sure, uh,

:

00:58:51,103 --> 00:58:51,589

Davin McCoy: He made

:

00:58:52,314 --> 00:58:53,994

Jason English (Host): you

know, a lot of studios have it.

:

00:58:54,164 --> 00:58:57,704

And actually, Michael, I was talking to

Michael briefly, He made a great point.

:

00:58:57,704 --> 00:59:01,084

He's like, listen, all these studios

have the gear, they have the instruments.

:

00:59:02,044 --> 00:59:03,624

Uh, but it's really the people.

:

00:59:03,674 --> 00:59:04,994

And then sort of the.

:

00:59:05,844 --> 00:59:10,094

The secret sauce is the, the experience,

you know, so the fact that you can

:

00:59:10,094 --> 00:59:15,034

stay here on the site, uh, wake up,

grab coffee and, you know, start

:

00:59:15,034 --> 00:59:16,744

working or whatever, that's different.

:

00:59:17,114 --> 00:59:21,164

Um, and just the whole, the whole setting,

there's like an English garden here,

:

00:59:21,164 --> 00:59:23,154

the ping pong tables, the whole thing.

:

00:59:23,154 --> 00:59:27,354

So it's like, um, yeah, the experience

and the people kind of make it.

:

00:59:27,404 --> 00:59:29,514

And, uh, it's, it's just been fascinating.

:

00:59:29,514 --> 00:59:31,834

Cause this is the first time I've

ever sat in a recording studio.

:

00:59:32,194 --> 00:59:33,750

Davin McCoy: it's just

:

00:59:33,974 --> 00:59:34,564

Jason English (Host): it's wild.

:

00:59:34,564 --> 00:59:34,914

Yeah.

:

00:59:35,307 --> 00:59:43,089

Davin McCoy: It's like this is

the first time I've done it.

:

00:59:43,109 --> 00:59:43,849

Jason English (Host): it's, uh,

:

00:59:44,429 --> 00:59:46,549

Davin McCoy: It's incredible

because that is the thing you go.

:

00:59:46,579 --> 00:59:50,869

I finish and I can sit on the porch

and kind of stare into the darkness

:

00:59:50,869 --> 00:59:54,909

and decompress after the, you know, the

day and then just walk up the stairs,

:

00:59:55,058 --> 00:59:55,590

Jason English (Host): to bed,

:

00:59:55,839 --> 00:59:58,279

Davin McCoy: go to bed,

wake up, shower, come home.

:

00:59:58,279 --> 01:00:00,469

The interns have breakfast

for you and coffee.

:

01:00:00,469 --> 01:00:03,849

And it's like, it's just

a, it's, it's really great.

:

01:00:04,109 --> 01:00:06,939

Jason English (Host): And the soundboard,

you know, I don't know what model it

:

01:00:06,939 --> 01:00:12,189

is, but Michael was telling me it's, you

know, from:

:

01:00:12,199 --> 01:00:14,589

said it was built for Bob Marley's son.

:

01:00:14,704 --> 01:00:14,884

Davin McCoy: Yeah.

:

01:00:14,944 --> 01:00:16,564

I think it was built

for Ziggy or somebody.

:

01:00:16,869 --> 01:00:17,619

Jason English (Host): So, um,

:

01:00:17,944 --> 01:00:19,324

Davin McCoy: And then,

and then Zach Brown.

:

01:00:19,329 --> 01:00:20,854

Zach Brown had it at his place.

:

01:00:20,854 --> 01:00:23,434

He bought it, I think from,

uh, the Marley Estate maybe.

:

01:00:23,434 --> 01:00:28,174

And uh, he had it in, uh, Nashville,

his place before he closed it down.

:

01:00:28,174 --> 01:00:30,214

And then Michael, I think

brought, bought it from him.

:

01:00:30,224 --> 01:00:30,634

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

:

01:00:30,714 --> 01:00:36,424

So it's just the, uh, yeah,

just the setting, the sound.

:

01:00:36,504 --> 01:00:38,064

I mean, it's, uh, it's all there.

:

01:00:38,064 --> 01:00:40,234

So, and it's, it's coming across for sure.

:

01:00:40,424 --> 01:00:42,664

Thanks to having good luck

with the rest of the process.

:

01:00:42,834 --> 01:00:45,234

Davin McCoy: you Jason

English and Curious Goldfish.

:

01:00:45,764 --> 01:00:46,554

Thanks for having me.

:

01:00:46,684 --> 01:00:47,034

Jason English (Host): All right.

:

01:00:47,114 --> 01:00:47,614

Good luck, man.

:

01:00:47,774 --> 01:00:48,414

Davin McCoy: Thanks for coming out.

:

01:04:02,380 --> 01:04:03,940

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

:

01:04:03,940 --> 01:04:05,730

episode of Curious Goldfish.

:

01:04:06,170 --> 01:04:09,450

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

:

01:04:10,030 --> 01:04:12,650

Also tell your music loving

friends about us too.

:

01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,500

Until next time, stay curious.

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About the Podcast

Curious Goldfish
A Community Where Inquisitiveness and Music Come Together. Inspired by the Mindset of Ted Lasso.
Launching in 2024, the Curious Goldfish Brand is inspired by two episodes from the First Season of the Apple TV+ Series Ted Lasso.

The “Goldfish” reference is about the importance of not dwelling on mistakes in life. In an early episode, Ted Lasso, the series’ namesake asks one of his players – after they were badly beaten in a play during training – what the happiest animal on earth is. The answer: A Goldfish, because it has a 10-second memory. Lasso encourages the player to forget the mistake and to not let it hinder his mindset. In other words, to “Be a Goldfish.” The “Curious” reference is born from another Season 1 episode where Ted finds himself in a dart match at a local Pub with a ruthless Football Club Owner. Lasso references a quote from Walt Whitman to “Be Curious, Not Judgmental.”

So “Being a Goldfish” is a great start, but curiosity is an undervalued trait in today’s world. We don’t ask enough questions; we don’t inquire enough about each other and about life. So I want people to be “Curious Goldfish.”

The initial premise of the podcast will center around my curiosity about music. I can’t sing. I don’t play a musical instrument, but I am inspired by artists who are vulnerable enough to put their thoughts down and then share them with the entire world. I’m curious about the songwriting process; I’m curious about a musician’s journey; I’m curious about the business of music; I’m curious about who or what inspires a sad song, a love song - and everything in between.

Though the initial premise is music, we will likely spend time discussing and highlighting all-things Ted Lasso. In its three seasons, it inspired the host in so many ways (work, personal, relationships etc).

The musical focus of the Curious Goldfish Podcast will center around up-and-coming artists primarily in rock, roots, folk, Country and Americana genres. Not every aspiring musician will earn $100 million from Spotify streaming like Taylor Swift. Our goal is to shine a light on those artists who have as few as 100 monthly listeners to those with more than 100,000. Their stories deserve to be heard because your music can inspire, and it’s time you had a chance to share them.
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About your host

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Jason English

Tech Exec by Day, Music Lover Day and Night. Former Journalist who is trying to be a middle-aged William Miller from the Movie Almost Famous. Also, Ted Lasso changed his life...so there's that.