In the Studio with Davin McCoy: Part 1

Davin McCoy: 00:00:06

And those people generally are probably not going to have a

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great time if, if they're at my show,

sometimes they'll go, wow, I feel I've

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had people come to me and go like,

I haven't felt emotions, you know,

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or something like that in a while.

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And I felt, you know, I've had

people tell me like it made me feel

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uncomfortable, which I think is, I

think that's sort of, you know, punk

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rock at its finest really is, is just

making people feel some shit that

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they're not always comfortable feeling.

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

Curious Goldfish, a podcast community

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where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

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with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find Curious Goldfish and all the

major podcasts and social media platforms.

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And of course we have all of our

content on our website, curiousgoldfish.

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com.

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I moved to the Atlanta area

two and a half years ago.

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And seemingly each week I learned about

a new artist that lives here or learn

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of an industry icon that grew up here.

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I saw Elton John perform at the Mercedes

Benz Stadium in late: 2022

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no idea he's made Atlanta home for

the past 25 years up until recently.

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And we're just weeks since the

Super Bowl was played in Las Vegas.

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Where Usher performed at halftime and

apparently he attended high school in

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the town where I live in Roswell, North

of Atlanta, John Mayer, Zac Brown have

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passed through just like countless

others from so many different genres.

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Where am I going with this?

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Well, fairly early on after moving

here, I came across a local artist

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performing in a tavern down the street.

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A little place, it's called 1920.

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The artist was Davin McCoy, and

I was blown away by Davin's whole

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persona he had going on that night.

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Every cover he did sounded better

than the original, and every original

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he did sounded like something

that should be on the radio.

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I've been fortunate to spend time with

Davin ever since, and that reaction I had

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the very first time seeing him is still

something I feel every time I watch him.

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Whether it's in front of a handful

of people at a restaurant overlooking

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the Beltline in downtown Atlanta,

or even at legendary Eddie's Attic.

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If you've seen him, you

know what I'm talking about.

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And if you haven't, well, I'm so excited

to introduce him to you as he's about

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to record his first album in a decade.

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And I'm hoping that his following will

exponentially grow because he has all the

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talent to be right up there with those

other Atlanta artists I just mentioned.

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This is the first of three

episodes we have planned with him.

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This conversation occurred

in late January,: 2024

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as he was about to record.

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We hope to catch him during the studio

recording, and then we hope to get a recap

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of the album and deeper insights into

the tracks that make it near its release.

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I'm hoping one of those tracks selected

for the album is Rings, a beautiful

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song where Davin urges someone to

metaphorically cut him up and look

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on the inside of him, just like you

would do to read the rings of a tree.

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After my conversation with him, I'm

so happy to include a recording of

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that song that he performed on a

cold December night in the backyard

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of a friend's house here in Roswell.

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Picture a cold, dark night, trees

all around, with a campfire glowing

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and crackling as Davin sits on a

bright red stool with his guitar and

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every lyric he sings is accompanied

by breath from the frigid air.

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Pure magic.

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And you can even hear

the fire alongside Davin.

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It's a thin line between making

it big and not making it in music.

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There's no reason Davin McCoy

can't be a household name after

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he leaves Muscle Shoals, Alabama,

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where he will be recording this spring.

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And that's where we pick up

our conversation with him.

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Let's dive in.

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How did the Muscle

Shoals thing come about?

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Davin McCoy: Through my partner

Robby, he brought Dan Hannan around

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to to some shows, Robby was the

one trying to convince me to do

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shows you that wanted me to

do a record kind of my way

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um, so he convinced

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So he convinced me he started

the ball rolling, I guess.

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And he brought Dan Hannan

around, who's a producer that

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used to live here in Georgia.

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And he moved to, and so he

had come in and expressed some

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interest in producing the record.

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And I was certainly interested

in what he had to say.

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And then he joined this group in

Muscle Shoals called the Ivy Manor.

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Uh, music group, uh, I think

they're like the deadly, deadly

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badass assassins or something.

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It's something they call themselves.

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But, um, so he moved out to

Muscle Shoals to join them.

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Jason English (Host): That's big.

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So it's been what 10 years since

your previous studio album what have

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you been doing the past 10 years,

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I've,

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Davin McCoy: I've written, I wrote a lot.

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I kept intending to make the new record.

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I had some, um, there was some

legal stuff to get through with.

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uh,

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with my last record label, it

really kind of put a damper the way

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things went, um, after that last

record, which was partly my fault.

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That last record, we had, we had a lot

of money behind us and, uh, and it was,

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they'd really kind of hyped it and,

um, and the way they were promoting it.

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the Or the

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way they wanted to do it and the

way they were spending money that

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essentially I was going to owe back

regardless of how they spend it.

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So I had no really say in it.

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They would just sort of, you know,

they would, they would kind of

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spin it their way and then go,

by the way, you know, this is the

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current debt, you know, or whatever.

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And I didn't see it ever paying off

the way they were pushing anything.

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It seemed like we were on

two really different pages.

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Kelly, who became my, she's my ex wife

now, but we got knocked up during that

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during that first year of the record.

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that also kind of put

me in a crazy headspace.

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I didn't want to be gone all the time.

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and really not making a lot of money

with what we were doing at that time.

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And it just, the business

structure wasn't there.

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Um, this is not, it really made sense.

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So it put kind of left

me with a horrible taste.

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And so when I did finally, it was

kind of a slow burn split from them.

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So of course it was even, you

know, we could have just, we should

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have just ripped the bandaid off.

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But, um, so I took a bunch of time.

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to figure

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a lot of stuff out.

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And then I went through and then

I was going to put another record

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out and I went through a divorce,

which took forever and was horrible.

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And then I was ready to work on

the new record and then Covid.

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but the whole time I was, you

know, I was doing, I was working

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in some way with, with music and

with the writing and all that.

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Jason English (Host): Some of your fans

may be curious...do you have access

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and rights to , songs that have been

previously recorded on other labels?

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Can you ever resurrect those?

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Or can you?

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Other labels.

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writers.

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Davin McCoy: There's some that I did,

under some other umbrellas, that I

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can't, that I have no access to, um, but

the songs that are still up on Spotify

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and the records that are still up on

Spotify, uh, those I, I think I have, I

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mean, there, I don't know, there could be

a, we might be open to some sort of, um,

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Jason English (Host): like redo.

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Davin McCoy: Yeah, and I plan on kind of

redoing the, especially the last record.

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I plan on doing sort of, um,

a Taylor's version, you know,

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re release of those records.

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I know you're a Swifty.

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Jason English (Host): that.

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Davin's Davin's version.

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Perfect.

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Davin McCoy: Uh, but as far as I know, I,

uh, we, where we landed, I think I owned

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the majority enough of the publishing

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Jason English (Host): so just out of

curiosity, so are those songs like,

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you know, whiskey, sexy and happy life

and numbers game, things like that.

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Davin McCoy: Yeah, that, that

whole record, I'd like to do, um,

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a more intimate version of it.

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Um, I'd like to do it with

the same approach that we're

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approaching this new record with.

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Um, which is how we should have

done it in the first place.

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And that's not me, Doc, because

Don McAllister produced that

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record, and Don McAllister is,

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is, he's

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is a, uh, he's as good

as, as good as it gets.

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And, and, um, but it did have a lot of

influence from the, From the label and,

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uh, it's just really shiny, the record

is shiny and, and, and I don't think I

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necessarily at the, I don't, you know,

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Jason English (Host): uh,

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Davin McCoy: the shiny factor I think

takes away from some of the, it should

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be a little messier, I think, you

know, um, a little more intimate, like

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kind of the, some of the, I think a

lot of the kind of the scars and warts

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and things were sort of we, we, uh,

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we

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We would kind of clean that, you know,

I'd go back in and re dub a vocal if

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I didn't like a note or something.

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And just a lot of that stuff was,

we were all kind of caught up in it.

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So I think that it, um,

it's a good record, I think.

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I don't know that it's representative

of what you come see at a live show.

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Jason English (Host): How do you think

you've changed as a songwriter or

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musician since that last studio album?

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Davin McCoy: think I'm I'm a better singer

a better guitar player I don't have as

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much confidence when I'm writing as I

did but not I think Not in a bad way and

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more of an objective quality I think I'm

a more conscientious singer than I was,

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uh, I think a little bit more about what

I'm doing instead of just sort of, before

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it was sort of closed, I was still kind

of closed my eyes and just let it go.

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But I, um, I tried to learn a little

bit more about what I was doing.

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I felt like I was always you know, the

movie, Days of Thunder with Tom Cruise.

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It's Top Gun, but with race cars.

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there's that scene where Robert Duvall is

talking to him in the bar after they've

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been on the track all day, and he's

trying to get Tom Cruise to talk to him

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about what he was feeling in the car.

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And he's, and Tom Cruise is finally

like, he's like, I'm an idiot.

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He's like, I don't know

anything about what's going on.

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I just know how to drive the

car and I can't, I don't know

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the lingo or the language.

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I sort of kind of felt that way.

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And I had been in the studio with

over the years with, just heroes of

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mine and guys that are, you know, been

from Chuck Lovell to, uh, Ryan Newell

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to just being around all these guys.

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I just got tired of feeling like an idiot.

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Uh, when, when they, you know, I

could write numbers for him, you

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know, but, and that was sort of it.

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Um, everything else was just sort of

coming from the gut and, and I think

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it's important to, for it to come

from the gut, but it's nice if it

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can pass through your head before or

after, you can put like some thought,

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more thought into the physicality of

what you're doing and based on kind

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of more of a knowledge of the music.

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Jason English (Host): Is there

a chance that even though

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even though you have less confidence that

you are probably a better songwriter now?

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Just,

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Davin McCoy: I think so.

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Um, I think that I, I am, uh, I just,

I think when I say less confidence,

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I, I think that I'm more open to

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other genres of music and the

songwriting process behind songs

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that maybe I don't like, but I.

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Can listen and really understand

the the kind of the greatness

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behind whatever it is whether it's

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you

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it could be you know, whether it's

a metal song or a Taylor Swift song

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or a You know, Ed Sheeran song or

a, or a, uh, Cat Stevens, you know,

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whatever it is, I, I think I, I

listen a little bit more objectively.

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And so that is sort of the undertone that

when I say less confidence is, is that

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it's just more of, I think, an objectivity

about what, what's, what's happening

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or what I'm, what I'm trying to say.

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The other part is that I still

am in love with the idea of,

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heartbreak and, isolation and.

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Then all the way to the other side of

connection and that type of love that

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is You know where you still feel like

a teenager waiting, you know, just when

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you've, you've been with somebody night

after night, after night, after night,

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and you still see them and feel like

it's prom night, you know, and it's

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the first time, you know, I still am.

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a bit, and,

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I really, and I, and as you get older,

I think as a songwriter, you start to

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think of, you know, you can become jaded

to that, those ideas because you just

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experienced heartbreak so many times, you

know, it's a fleeting thing, you know,

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Jason English (Host): part of life.

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Davin McCoy: yeah, it's just

something you're going to go

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Jason English (Host): It's Thursday.

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Davin McCoy: right?

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When you're 20 and you get your heart

broken, it's like, holy fuck, your

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world is completely fucking shattered

and you'll never recover, you know?

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And um, and I, I still feel,

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know, until you find that thing,

especially If, uh, if you get kind of

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bored easy or whatever it is until you

find that thing again, you're going

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to go through it over and over again.

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And each time it's, you're more

aware of what's happening and

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that it'll, this too shall pass.

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But if you really, you know, if you lean

into it, you can still feel those same

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things from that you have felt your whole

life as a human being and, but some of

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that I'll sit down to write and I'll

feel like this is too heavy and this

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is too emotional and it feels like a.

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Uh, it feels like something a 20 year

old should write and not a man in

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his thirties, you know, and so, um

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Jason English (Host): Well, that

reminds me though, of like, you know,

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again, back to like Ted lasso that

scene with Roy Kent, where, Rebecca's

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like, they go on a double date and she's

like, what'd you think about the guy?

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And Keely's like, no, he's, he checks

the boxes, he's financially fit.

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He's, he's good looking, whatever.

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And Roy Kent's like, you know,

are you bleeping kidding me?

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You know, and ba he basically

tells Rebecca, you deserve.

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To feel like you got struck by lightning,

that's what you're talking about.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Davin McCoy: about.

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And I love, I love, I'm a

complete sucker for that stuff.

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And, and, uh, and, and shows and

my emotional status I think has

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always been, it's in a, in a,

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sort of an, I mean,

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I'll cry during an

insurance commercial, um,

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Really?

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but then if something heavy, like

important in my life happens, I'm,

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I'm pretty stoic a lot of the time.

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And it's, I think this

was killed a lot of it.

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It's hard for a partner to be with me

because they'll, they'll go, I want,

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you know, I go to a show and watch you

talk about a song and then, you know, I

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can see your eyes watering while you're

just singing a song that you wrote.

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15 years ago or something or, or, or

whether it's a month ago or 15 years ago

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and, and then I've never seen you one time

cry at home over, you know what I mean?

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It's like.

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Jason English (Host):

Why do you think that is?

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Davin McCoy: early childhood

developmental trauma.

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Really?

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Uh, it's just a safe space

that I found when I was young.

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Emotions were were not real safe

for me when I was young and not

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because I had a shitty parents.

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They were doing absolutely

the best they can just on.

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They were great.

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Um, but you know, my both of my parents

had come from a lot of trauma in their

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background and um And sort of my mom

sort of felt responsible for my emotions.

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And what happens there is that in

turn you feel responsible for hers.

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So you don't want to be sad because

she gets sad if you're sad, which is

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too heavy for a kid to really carry.

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And so you tend to be stoic through

everything because you just, you don't

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want to, you don't want to make your mom

upset and just you being upset will make

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your mom upset if in those situations if

you're, and then on the other side of it,

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you know, my dad really didn't have much

patience for or validation for emotions.

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So I just kind of had in, in the

both houses, um, I just had parents

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that, you know, it just was, uh,

it wasn't real conducive for me.

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So then when I, when I started.

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singing music, playing music and

singing it and then writing it,

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you know, that all of a sudden

you're on, some form of a stage.

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and not only do people sort of expect

you to, to really feel emotions,

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the more you feel, the more it

tends to resonate and then they

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clap for you afterwards, you know?

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So it's, it was this safe space where

I could feel and really, um, Really

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kind of experience the things that

you're supposed to just probably be

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doing in your everyday life, you know

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: 00:16:13

Jason English (Host): The other night,

we were together and I saw you do a

295

: 00:16:17

cover a Damien Rice to just and I

don't know what the meaning behind

296

: 00:16:21

the song is but I can see it in

your face, well, most everyone can

297

: 00:16:26

Davin McCoy: think well and Damien Rice's

he almost everything he's written I I Go.

298

: 00:16:33

Oh, yeah, that's what I was thinking.

299

: 00:16:35

He just did it a lot better than me Yeah.

300

: 00:16:38

Damien is a great example of that.

301

: 00:16:40

And that song, it was delicate, right?

302

: 00:16:43

Is that what I did?

303

: 00:16:43

Um,

304

: 00:16:44

been out

305

: 00:16:45

that song has been around, has

been out for a very long time.

306

: 00:16:48

And I still, every time I decide

if I'll, I don't know what made

307

: 00:16:50

me play it the other night,

308

: 00:16:51

Jason English (Host): Well, I think

they asked you, you know, play your

309

: 00:16:53

favorite cover and it took you a minute,

but then that's what you landed on.

310

: 00:16:57

Davin McCoy: That's right.

311

: 00:16:58

Oh yeah.

312

: 00:16:58

It was, well, play your favorite cover

always turns into play what right this

313

: 00:17:02

second you would, you would make you the

That I think what you're feeling the most.

314

: 00:17:07

And that's in that arsenal that I

shuffle around for sure of songs

315

: 00:17:11

that I know always make me sort

of, uh, they make me happy to play.

316

: 00:17:15

And that song is that song is so good.

317

: 00:17:18

Um, every song on every

record of his is good

318

: 00:17:21

Jason English (Host): So in

terms of the songwriting, you

319

: 00:17:23

said you've been writing songs.

320

: 00:17:24

I mean, how, how big's the backlog

in the last 10 years of what you have

321

: 00:17:27

now to choose from for the new album?

322

: 00:17:29

Davin McCoy: It's not

as big as it should be.

323

: 00:17:31

There was some of the songs.

324

: 00:17:34

There was some,

325

: 00:17:36

There were a few periods of

time where I wrote the same song

326

: 00:17:39

about a hundred times, probably.

327

: 00:17:42

and, and it was in moments where I was

too, I went, there was a lot of shit

328

: 00:17:49

that happened in the last 10 years.

329

: 00:17:50

And so, you know, you

have a couple of kids

330

: 00:17:53

go through a divorce, um, go through

another really, really difficult breakup.

331

: 00:18:00

COVID, all this stuff, right?

332

: 00:18:01

And, right after you go through them, if

you can't, it's, there's some people that

333

: 00:18:05

can immediately sort of recognize and

write it the way it should be written.

334

: 00:18:10

Um, when you go through something

heavy, I tend to be too close

335

: 00:18:13

to the painting for a while.

336

: 00:18:14

And so a lot of the writing is

purely, it's just therapeutic.

337

: 00:18:18

There's nothing to really come from it.

338

: 00:18:20

It's just a way of, of.

339

: 00:18:22

leaning into the emotions

and feeling them.

340

: 00:18:26

But I'm too close to the painting

to really describe it, you know, and

341

: 00:18:29

it takes some time to get a better

perspective of what you're seeing or what

342

: 00:18:32

it is you're going through or feeling.

343

: 00:18:34

So there's a lot of

songs that were written.

344

: 00:18:36

Most of them are unusable.

345

: 00:18:38

and then in terms of what we've been

Kind of sorting through for this

346

: 00:18:43

the ones that I've been comfortable.

347

: 00:18:44

I have Presenting I have I think I

have done a pretty good job myself.

348

: 00:18:50

I'm narrowing them down to probably around

349

: 00:18:51

16 to 18 or something and then if I really

have to bring out I've got a whole A

350

: 00:18:58

whole book of songs that if we get to,

if I get to Muscle Shoals and we, and

351

: 00:19:02

we think that we're needing some other

material, I've got stuff I can start

352

: 00:19:05

showing them or, or at, at, at worst

case, sort of a lyric and an outline of

353

: 00:19:11

a, of a bunch of things that we can look

through and see if there's something

354

: 00:19:15

Jason English (Host): Do you anticipate

doing much writing while you are there?

355

: 00:19:17

Or will it be mostly if trying

to record what you've got?

356

: 00:19:21

There.

357

: 00:19:21

Davin McCoy: Some

358

: 00:19:22

of the team there, they

are looking to write.

359

: 00:19:26

a couple of songs

360

: 00:19:27

songs with me.

361

: 00:19:29

I know that they are, are

sort of leaning into that.

362

: 00:19:32

And I'm very, very open to

it, but I also told him that

363

: 00:19:35

I'm not, there's no guarantee.

364

: 00:19:37

I'm in no way am I guaranteeing

that they'll be on the record.

365

: 00:19:40

And, uh, it's, it's personal.

366

: 00:19:43

It's, you know, it's a, I writing

for other, stuff is different, you

367

: 00:19:47

know, but for The record, especially

when I haven't put one out in 10

368

: 00:19:50

years, it's, it feels really personal

and it feels very close to me.

369

: 00:19:54

And so if we write something

that I love, then I will 100

370

: 00:19:57

percent put it on the record.

371

: 00:19:58

And if we write something that I

love, but I just don't think it's

372

: 00:20:01

for the record, I'll just, you know,

we'll use it for something else.

373

: 00:20:04

We've written a lot of good

stuff out there this past year.

374

: 00:20:06

So

375

: 00:20:07

Jason English (Host): So what,

what are your goals for the album?

376

: 00:20:09

And you kind of described it like

you're too close to the painting.

377

: 00:20:13

Does the painting have a theme yet?

378

: 00:20:15

Davin McCoy: I think there's

a general feeling that is.

379

: 00:20:21

That I've already tried to, uh,

Robbie and I have, Robbie's helped

380

: 00:20:24

me sort of through this process with,

kind of outlining a feeling and a

381

: 00:20:28

theme, which is, it's pretty heavy.

382

: 00:20:31

I mean, it's pretty, there's a lot of,

um, it's a lot of emotional takes, I

383

: 00:20:36

think, and uh, for better or worse, but

384

: 00:20:38

was.

385

: 00:20:39

But,

386

: 00:20:39

overall

387

: 00:20:41

we

388

: 00:20:41

wanted to just be.

389

: 00:20:43

Extremely intimate and extremely,

passionate and, think that if I could

390

: 00:20:50

sum up sort of the goal, it would be You

know, there's music to dance to, you know,

391

: 00:20:55

and there's music to do all, you know,

all sorts of reasons to listen to music

392

: 00:20:59

and you know, the goal of this record is

393

: 00:21:02

You know for I think for people that

ever just sort of feel isolated or feel

394

: 00:21:08

Uncomfortable or feel Uh, afraid or

feel, um, sad or feel, manic or whatever

395

: 00:21:14

it is to, to listen to the record

and feel less alone about feeling any

396

: 00:21:18

of those things, you know, I think

that's probably the overall gist.

397

: 00:21:22

There will be people that

go like, bro, lighten up,

398

: 00:21:26

Jason English (Host): I bro.

399

: 00:21:27

don't think heard that before

400

: 00:21:28

Davin McCoy: never have I heard of that.

401

: 00:21:30

I will, people will approach

me and think that I'm like they

402

: 00:21:34

will assume that I'm gonna be.

403

: 00:21:37

Very delicate and emotional and,

and I think a lot of people are

404

: 00:21:41

always surprised to learn that

I'm, I'm really like laughing all

405

: 00:21:44

Jason English (Host): that

I'm, I'm really, lighthearted.

406

: 00:21:47

Davin McCoy: get the heavy shit

out in the song so that I don't

407

: 00:21:50

carry it around with me all day.

408

: 00:21:51

Cause if I didn't, I would.

409

: 00:21:53

I would, I would walk around with

it when I'm not writing or playing,

410

: 00:21:56

even if just not playing for a while.

411

: 00:21:59

It doesn't matter if it's a

pub or a festival or a show or

412

: 00:22:02

a theater, it doesn't matter.

413

: 00:22:04

I will start emotionally chew,

like I'm like a golden retriever.

414

: 00:22:08

I'll emotionally start chewing up

the carpet if I don't play enough.

415

: 00:22:11

And, uh, and it's probably not

the most functional way to exist,

416

: 00:22:16

but it is the way that I exist.

417

: 00:22:18

And it's probably too late to fix it.

418

: 00:22:20

Change it much now.

419

: 00:22:21

Jason English (Host): Well, I think like

if I did music reviews, I would probably

420

: 00:22:25

start out with a review of your music

with something like this, which was like,

421

: 00:22:29

you know, there's a guy, Leo Tolstoy

said, music is the shorthand of emotion.

422

: 00:22:35

Davin McCoy: I

423

: 00:22:35

Jason English (Host): I would say

music is a shorthand of emotion.

424

: 00:22:38

And Davin McCoy writes in calligraphy,

425

: 00:22:41

Davin McCoy: people.

426

: 00:22:41

Oh, man.

427

: 00:22:43

I said, can you write my new bio?

428

: 00:22:46

think we talked about

429

: 00:22:47

Jason English (Host):

That's a pretty good line,

430

: 00:22:48

Davin McCoy: a great

431

: 00:22:48

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

432

: 00:22:49

Cause like you, if anyone sees

you in, in person, it is a

433

: 00:22:54

lot, but being alive is a lot.

434

: 00:22:57

Having relationships is a lot.

435

: 00:22:59

Having kids is a lot.

436

: 00:23:01

Having friendships is a lot.

437

: 00:23:02

So it's like, that's kind of what.

438

: 00:23:05

music should be.

439

: 00:23:06

Davin McCoy: I, yeah, I agree with you.

440

: 00:23:08

I mean, that's definitely my

approach and that's, that's my

441

: 00:23:10

defense and too of what I do.

442

: 00:23:12

I mean, that's the best, more eloquently

put than I've probably ever put it.

443

: 00:23:15

Uh.

444

: 00:23:15

that's just

445

: 00:23:17

You know, and I have, I've had people

go like, man, play something happy, you

446

: 00:23:21

know, my very eloquent way of responding

to that is normally just go fuck

447

: 00:23:25

Jason English (Host): very eloquent

way of Well you've got Happy Life,

448

: 00:23:27

you've got Not at All to that.

449

: 00:23:29

Davin McCoy: life.

450

: 00:23:29

Yeah.

451

: 00:23:30

Yeah.

452

: 00:23:31

With you.

453

: 00:23:32

Yeah.

454

: 00:23:32

Yeah.

455

: 00:23:32

Yeah.

456

: 00:23:34

Um, yeah.

457

: 00:23:36

Which both have some sadness

behind them really, but, uh,

458

: 00:23:39

Jason English (Host):

We don't have to talk

459

: 00:23:40

Davin McCoy: no, I won't.

460

: 00:23:41

Yeah.

461

: 00:23:41

Yeah.

462

: 00:23:41

That's mine to keep.

463

: 00:23:43

there are people that are just,

464

: 00:23:46

you brought up the Ted Lasso thing.

465

: 00:23:47

Ted Lasso is a great example of,

that man is, you know, he's a

466

: 00:23:51

walking antidepressant from the

people around him, but he is.

467

: 00:23:57

You know, I thought it was so brilliant

the second season when they, when they

468

: 00:24:00

came back in with sort of the reality

that is so that you're going to have with

469

: 00:24:06

that, with that personality type, which

is he's going to be dealing with something

470

: 00:24:10

inside that he's compartmentalizing that

is going to eventually come out sideways.

471

: 00:24:14

And he, and I thought, I think they

did such a great job with the mental

472

: 00:24:18

health aspect of that side of it.

473

: 00:24:19

yeah, that's the thing is that there's,

there's a duality and you have to,

474

: 00:24:24

you've got to lean into both of them.

475

: 00:24:25

And some people lean into music for

that and other people's, uh, and other

476

: 00:24:29

people lean into it, uh, to really happy

music for the, for the other side of it.

477

: 00:24:33

And those people generally are probably

not going to have a great time if, if

478

: 00:24:36

they're at my show, sometimes they'll go,

wow, I feel I've had people come to me

479

: 00:24:41

and go like, I haven't felt emotions, you

know, or something like that in a while.

480

: 00:24:44

And I felt, you know, I've had

people tell me like it made me feel

481

: 00:24:47

uncomfortable, which I think is, I

think that's sort of, you know, punk

482

: 00:24:52

rock at its finest really is, is just

making people feel some shit that

483

: 00:24:56

they're not always comfortable feeling.

484

: 00:24:58

And then other people, it's just cathartic

to lean into it and, and they tend

485

: 00:25:02

to be drawn to, and I'm the same way.

486

: 00:25:04

I mean, shit give me, I'll go to

a, you know, I go to a Damien Rice,

487

: 00:25:09

you know, show over a mama's in

the Papa's show every day, all day.

488

: 00:25:13

Jason English (Host): And

there's a market for it.

489

: 00:25:14

I mean, some, some people

490

: 00:25:16

are like, well, you know,

491

: 00:25:17

music

492

: 00:25:18

music should be dancing and

happy and things like that.

493

: 00:25:21

But like you mentioned

Damien Rice, I think.

494

: 00:25:24

Yeah.

495

: 00:25:24

Gregory Allen Isakov off also

you're not gonna want to go, to the

496

: 00:25:28

carnival after listening Isakov.

497

: 00:25:30

Right.

498

: 00:25:30

But like, there's, there's a beauty to it.

499

: 00:25:33

Yeah.

500

: 00:25:33

There's, there's a, there's

501

: 00:25:35

Davin McCoy: there's, there's

a whole inner world that

502

: 00:25:37

allows you to experience a

503

: 00:25:40

some people are comfortable

in that space some people are

504

: 00:25:42

too comfortable in that space

505

: 00:25:43

to it.

506

: 00:25:49

It's just a whole

507

: 00:25:49

Jason English (Host): space.

508

: 00:25:50

Yeah.

509

: 00:25:50

Yeah.

510

: 00:25:51

Davin McCoy: the duality of the

universe that exists in every

511

: 00:25:53

single one of us, I think.

512

: 00:25:55

Jason English (Host): So we talked

about it's been 10 years since the

513

: 00:25:56

studio album, but, but you did release

something over the summer, which is

514

: 00:26:00

a live recording at a performance

at Eddie's attic here in Atlanta.

515

: 00:26:04

I guess.

516

: 00:26:04

What was the purpose of that?

517

: 00:26:06

Davin McCoy: of that?

518

: 00:26:06

I think Robbie wanted me to do it.

519

: 00:26:09

I think that

520

: 00:26:09

Jason English (Host): Robbie's

got ultimate ultimate authority.

521

: 00:26:12

Davin McCoy: I think he wanted me

to do it and I was happy to do it.

522

: 00:26:15

Uh, or I was sort of Yeah, I

thought, sure, why shouldn't we?

523

: 00:26:21

That's another thing that's changed as

well, is I don't feel as, um, I'm not

524

: 00:26:27

as afraid of, of, uh, of it not being,

of things not being perfect or anything.

525

: 00:26:32

You know, sort of, like when they

mixed down that record, I was

526

: 00:26:36

in there for about ten minutes.

527

: 00:26:38

I

528

: 00:26:40

I cannot sit here and listen to this.

529

: 00:26:42

I am out of here.

530

: 00:26:43

I trust you guys.

531

: 00:26:44

Tell me when it's done and send it to me.

532

: 00:26:45

just mix it how you think and just don't.

533

: 00:26:48

Don't chop anything out, don't tune

anything, but, but you guys can mix

534

: 00:26:52

it down and just release it because

I'll never be, you'll never hear me,

535

: 00:26:56

especially in a live recording, I'll

never, if it, if it requires me to

536

: 00:27:01

sit there and go, yes, that's great.

537

: 00:27:03

Put it out.

538

: 00:27:03

I'll never will.

539

: 00:27:05

and

540

: 00:27:06

it was

541

: 00:27:07

Jason English (Host): yes,

that's great, I'll never will.

542

: 00:27:12

I think I, when I did end up listening

543

: 00:27:20

Davin McCoy: when I did end up listening

to it a couple of times, I, I really

544

: 00:27:23

did think it was, it was, it was good.

545

: 00:27:25

I thought it was, I thought it

was a pretty good representative.

546

: 00:27:28

Yeah.

547

: 00:27:28

Um, representation.

548

: 00:27:30

And I'd like to do that.

549

: 00:27:33

That was, we, we did that because our

plan is, I think, to try to do release,

550

: 00:27:38

you know, one show at least once a year.

551

: 00:27:42

Um, and, um,

552

: 00:27:44

Jason English (Host): year.

553

: 00:27:45

You're

554

: 00:27:45

Davin McCoy: know, even if it's

555

: 00:27:46

in a different

556

: 00:27:47

a lot of song overlap and

stuff, um, I'm cool with it.

557

: 00:27:51

I think it's cool to have just,

558

: 00:27:52

Jason English (Host): So it

559

: 00:27:53

Davin McCoy: just always in a

different space when it's shit

560

: 00:27:55

that means something to you.

561

: 00:27:56

And so it comes out

different in a lot of ways.

562

: 00:27:59

Jason English (Host): Do you think

the new album will be more like that

563

: 00:28:02

than it was than your earlier stuff?

564

: 00:28:06

Davin McCoy: Yes, it'll be, this will be,

um, yeah, it'll be much closer to the goal

565

: 00:28:15

with this record is to be able to, if I'm

It's not going to be an acoustic record.

566

: 00:28:19

It's going to be, there'll be, uh,

plenty of instruments on it, but it'll

567

: 00:28:23

never feel like a, it's me with a band,

uh, because I don't plan on really

568

: 00:28:28

touring with a band again for some time.

569

: 00:28:30

And, um, so I want the record,

I want the record to be big

570

: 00:28:33

and atmospheric and all that.

571

: 00:28:34

But when you hear me play the

same songs live with just me and a

572

: 00:28:38

guitar or me and one other guy or

whatever, I don't want it to sound

573

: 00:28:42

like different versions of the songs.

574

: 00:28:43

I want it to sound like the same

song, just, just, um, A great example

575

: 00:28:48

is, uh, you kind of hear that with

a lot of like Ray stuff and Damien

576

: 00:28:52

Rye stuff and it's all, you know,

it's produced, but when he does it,

577

: 00:28:55

does most of them acoustic when either

one of them do or a lot of guys, uh,

578

: 00:29:00

it doesn't sound even bad to like Cat

Stevens, you know, whatever it was,

579

: 00:29:05

whatever the quality was about the

recordings when he played acoustic stuff

580

: 00:29:10

for him and just one other guy, it didn't

sound like this is the acoustic version,

581

: 00:29:14

you know, it just sounded like the song.

582

: 00:29:16

Jason English (Host): So I hope to

talk to you in muscle Shoals, while

583

: 00:29:18

you're recording, but I guess, can you

walk us through, what do you call it?

584

: 00:29:22

Pre production process?

585

: 00:29:24

what are some of those steps that

you've been doing the last couple of

586

: 00:29:26

months to prepare for muscle Shoals?

587

: 00:29:27

Just,

588

: 00:29:30

Davin McCoy: panicking.

589

: 00:29:31

That's probably the

thing I've done the most.

590

: 00:29:33

I've just been trying to sit with, um,

Some of these songs have, I have about,

591

: 00:29:39

I've probably done them 10 different ways.

592

: 00:29:42

Over the past bunch of years

So I've been trying to sit with

593

: 00:29:46

those and figure out what I like

the way I want to do them best.

594

: 00:29:51

I've been

595

: 00:29:51

um,

596

: 00:29:53

Sending tracks out to to those guys

out there to listen to and kind of get

597

: 00:29:57

a feel for so they can come up with

their what the production ideas and And

598

: 00:30:03

mostly just a lot of lyric cleaning up.

599

: 00:30:05

I've been going through and trying

to, you know, there's some of these

600

: 00:30:08

songs have 25 verses and that I've just

over the years that I've rewritten.

601

: 00:30:14

And um, so going back through all that,

which has been kind of neat, actually,

602

: 00:30:20

it's kind of sort of like reading your

journal in a lot of ways, obviously.

603

: 00:30:23

So I've been doing a lot of kind of lyric

cleanup and trying to find versions of

604

: 00:30:27

songs that I remembered that I liked that

that were recorded some way or another

605

: 00:30:30

and That's sort of what I think what

you sort of do you go through it and

606

: 00:30:36

and kind of

607

: 00:30:37

Kind of just take an inventory

pre production is sort of an

608

: 00:30:39

inventory and then once I get out

there and we do official We'll

609

: 00:30:43

do the studio pre production,

which is where we'll really sit.

610

: 00:30:48

Before we track, we'll sit, we'll

kind of draw out a map, like a brain

611

: 00:30:52

map concept of what the record is.

612

: 00:30:53

Dan is really, Dan Hannon is so, um,

613

: 00:30:59

he

614

: 00:30:59

He really brings a profundity and

like a weight to, uh, He, he said,

615

: 00:31:06

He said, you know, at some point I

realized that I don't, my, I, I'm

616

: 00:31:11

not a lot of producers approach.

617

: 00:31:14

It's sort of like they're making sort

of their record that you know, they're,

618

: 00:31:18

they're going to, they're, they have

decided what this record should be.

619

: 00:31:21

And great producers

have done that plenty of

620

: 00:31:23

Jason English (Host): many times,

621

: 00:31:24

Davin McCoy: but Dan is very,

I want to make your record.

622

: 00:31:27

I want to be the one to make your

record, which is pretty cool.

623

: 00:31:31

So we do, he does sort of a lot of, you

sit down and you really, I think it's

624

: 00:31:35

that kind of Rick Rubin school of thought,

you know, you got to kind of manipulate

625

: 00:31:39

in, get

626

: 00:31:39

and, um,

627

: 00:31:40

place you, you think

628

: 00:31:41

Get in getting, you know, get

the artist to the place you,

629

: 00:31:44

you think they need to be in.

630

: 00:31:45

And, and, um, and a lot of ping pong,

a lot of ping pong talks, you know, so

631

: 00:31:52

Jason English (Host): fun.

632

: 00:31:52

Davin McCoy: it'll be great.

633

: 00:31:53

I'm excited.

634

: 00:31:54

Right.

635

: 00:31:54

Jason English (Host): Alright.

636

: 00:31:55

Well, thanks for your time today.

637

: 00:31:56

Uh, I look forward to

seeing you in Muscle Shoals.

638

: 00:31:58

Davin McCoy: Yeah, man.

639

: 00:31:59

We're gonna have a good time.

640

: 00:32:00

Jason English (Host): kick your ass in

641

: 00:32:01

Davin McCoy: You need to

brush up on your ping pong

642

: 00:32:02

Jason English (Host): don't worry about

643

: 00:32:03

Davin McCoy: we will.

644

: 00:32:04

It's, it's intense.

645

: 00:32:06

Are you good?

646

: 00:32:08

Jason English (Host): I'm

647

: 00:32:08

Davin McCoy: Of course you

648

: 00:32:09

Jason English (Host): I'm

good, I'm good at Cornhole.

649

: 00:32:11

Davin McCoy: too.

650

: 00:32:12

Uh, yeah, you have that walk too,

you know, you walk like an athlete.

651

: 00:32:17

Um,

652

: 00:32:17

Jason English (Host): oh, oh boy.

653

: 00:32:19

Davin McCoy: uh, yeah, no, uh, I don't

know, hopefully if you get out there

654

: 00:32:23

and smoke me, I'm gonna be so bummed.

655

: 00:32:27

Jason English (Host): I'm going

to bring my cornhole boards too.

656

: 00:32:28

Davin McCoy: they probably

have them out there.

657

: 00:32:30

They've also got like those

splatter ball guns, the intense

658

: 00:32:33

Jason English (Host):

you told me about that.

659

: 00:32:34

Davin McCoy: Uh, we get out there and And

make some noise and, um, shoot each other.

660

: 00:32:39

We actually created a new ping pong.

661

: 00:32:41

That's what, that's what

662

: 00:32:42

Jason English (Host): play.

663

: 00:32:42

Oh, that's right.

664

: 00:32:43

The splatter ping pong.

665

: 00:32:44

Davin McCoy: hit with

paintballs while you're playing.

666

: 00:32:47

Um, be great.

667

: 00:32:49

Uh, Gary Nichols, you know, Dan

Hannan, Eli, um, Clint, uh, the

668

: 00:32:57

whole team out there is really great.

669

: 00:32:58

Um, It's going to be a lot of fun.

670

: 00:33:01

Don't put that part in there.

671

: 00:33:02

Cause I left out two names and

I can't think of them right

672

: 00:33:04

now.

673

: 00:33:05

Jason English (Host):

I'll I'll fix that in post

674

: 00:33:06

Davin McCoy: Yeah.

675

: 00:33:07

Fix it in post.

676

: 00:33:08

Yeah.

677

: 00:33:09

Cool, man.

678

: 00:33:09

Jason English (Host): man.

679

: 00:33:10

You appreciate

680

: 00:33:10

Davin McCoy: Thanks Jay.

681

: 00:38:20

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

682

: 00:38:21

episode of Curious Goldfish.

683

: 00:38:24

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

684

: 00:38:27

Also, tell your music

loving friends about us too.

685

: 00:38:31

Until next time, stay curious.