Episode 33

full
Published on:

21st Oct 2024

A Chat with Lauren Lucas: Balancing Motherhood and Music

Lauren Lucas: Balancing Music, Motherhood, and the Nashville Scene

In this multifaceted episode, host Jason English engages in an enriching conversation with musician Lauren Lucas. They explore her versatile career in the music industry, from her digital releases since 2004 to performing at notable venues like the Bluebird Cafe. Lauren delves into her roles as a performer, songwriter, teacher, and podcaster, providing an insider's view of the music business. The discussion covers her childhood influences, journey from community theater to earning a Tony nomination, and balancing motherhood with a dynamic career. Insights into her songwriting process, the emotional depth of her song 'Motherlode,' and the importance of honesty and collaboration in co-writing are shared. They also touch upon maintaining romance in a busy marriage, the community of Nashville, and teaching songwriting's impactful simplicity. As the episode wraps up, Lauren unveils her future plans and performs an original song called "Motherlode," leaving listeners inspired by her dedication and creativity.

00:00 Introduction to Curious Goldfish Podcast

00:41 Meet Lauren: Early Career and First Releases

02:01 Performing at the Bluebird Cafe

02:32 The Magic of the Bluebird Cafe

06:39 Lauren's Diverse Career Journey

12:17 Balancing Motherhood and Music

14:27 Writing Across Genres

19:03 The Inspiration Behind 'Motherlode'

25:56 Keeping the Spark Alive in Relationships

30:39 The Importance of Being in Nashville

34:38 Networking in Nashville

34:45 Teaching Songwriting at Belmont University

35:44 Can Anyone Write a Song?

36:05 Student Experiences and Growth

39:29 The Truth in Country Music

41:52 Teaching Metaphorical vs. Literal Writing

44:38 Songwriting Exercise and Feedback

57:16 The Co-Writing Process

01:01:03 Future Plans and Projects

01:03:49 Live Performance

Transcript
Lauren Lucas:

I just knew, Very, very, very little about kids or babies

2

:

before I had for sure inspired by my

son and my experience of motherhood.

3

:

And I actually, I think more that like

my experience of motherhood, that's

4

:

what really inspired the song because I

think the biggest thing that surprised

5

:

me about motherhood now, I became a mom.

6

:

Like a day before COVID lockdown.

7

:

So, uh, there was a lot of isolation and

a lot of togetherness for a long time.

8

:

And he was premature.

9

:

So we really took a, a really

serious stance on, on staying

10

:

safe just for his health.

11

:

Jason English (Host): today, I'm thrilled

to introduce Lauren Lucas, an incredibly

12

:

talented musician and songwriter.

13

:

Lauren's journey in music has been

nothing short of extraordinary,

14

:

spanning across multiple genres

from folk rock to Broadway musicals.

15

:

With a career marked by versatility,

Lauren has been both a major label

16

:

artist and a grassroots musician writing

songs for herself and for others.

17

:

In this episode, Lauren shares

her experiences playing at the

18

:

iconic Bluebird cafe in Nashville.

19

:

She also reflects on her multifaceted

career and talks about balancing

20

:

motherhood with her music ambitions.

21

:

We also dive into her songwriting

process, her inspirations, and what

22

:

keeps her curious in life and music.

23

:

She even helps me with some

songwriting tips as I challenge her

24

:

notion that anyone can write a song.

25

:

From Nashville, Tennessee,

here's Lauren Lucas.

26

:

Let's dive in.

27

:

Hey, Lauren, it's so nice to meet you.

28

:

Thanks for joining.

29

:

Um, tell me something good

about your week so far.

30

:

Lauren Lucas: Yeah.

31

:

It's, it's nice to be here.

32

:

Thanks for inviting me.

33

:

And nice to meet you too.

34

:

Um, and, um, Man, I'm starting to record,

uh, my next single, although I'm not

35

:

sure if I'm really ready to talk too much

about it because it's in the early stages.

36

:

But, uh, I just put a new vocal on this

morning and, um, I think so far so good.

37

:

Jason English (Host): Okay.

38

:

Well, that's exciting.

39

:

Yeah, that's good.

40

:

And you've done a few of those

singles, you know, over the last few

41

:

months and year or so, uh, right.

42

:

Two or three.

43

:

If, if, if I

44

:

Lauren Lucas: Yeah, well, I think,

um, I think:

45

:

been my first digital release.

46

:

Um, and then I've, I've, uh, You know,

kind of in a, in a variety of, of time

47

:

pattern, uh, have released, you know,

EPs, full length albums, and then a lot of

48

:

singles, um, here in the last few years.

49

:

So yeah, I've got a

lot of music out there.

50

:

Jason English (Host): no, that's awesome.

51

:

Um, and so we'll talk about

hopefully some of the songs and

52

:

all the things, and you've got this

crazy, crazy background and that's,

53

:

that's why I reached out to you.

54

:

So not a crazy background in like a weird

way, but like, Impressive background.

55

:

Um, yeah, I came across you a few

weeks ago, just social media feed,

56

:

you know how that works where

you get teed up different things.

57

:

And, uh, I saw you playing at

the bluebird cafe in Nashville.

58

:

And, uh, so I was like, okay, that's cool.

59

:

Uh, I don't know who she

is, but she sounds good.

60

:

The, the, the song is fun.

61

:

Um, and, uh, and obviously anyone

that knows about the bluebird,

62

:

it's very exclusive, you know,

for people to, to perform there.

63

:

So.

64

:

Congrats on that.

65

:

And I think you recently played there and,

uh, you've got another date, uh, I think

66

:

upcoming, uh, later part of the summer.

67

:

So that that's awesome.

68

:

I guess, how, how did that come about and

what was that experience like for you?

69

:

Lauren Lucas: Yeah.

70

:

I always, uh, love playing the blue bird.

71

:

It is, it's one of my favorite

rooms in town in Nashville.

72

:

I've been playing there.

73

:

I mean, I've been in town now in

Nashville for 25 years and, you

74

:

know, I've been playing there.

75

:

Um, I've been lucky enough to

play there a majority of that

76

:

time, I guess I could say.

77

:

Um, and so, yeah, I played there, gosh,

I don't remember the last time, but it

78

:

doesn't feel like it was that long ago.

79

:

And then I have another date coming up

with them, uh, August 16th, I think.

80

:

And so, um, I'll be with Morgan miles

and Heidi Newfield and Megan Connor.

81

:

And, um, You know, I just, it's never

lost on me whether I'm singing there in

82

:

a, in a writer's round or whether I'm

an audience member, just how special

83

:

that room is and how many songs those

walls have heard hit songs yet to be

84

:

hit songs, uh, new songs that will, will

never probably be heard anywhere else.

85

:

Maybe they're just played once there.

86

:

Um, but it is just a really, really

special room and a nice little

87

:

community for the songwriters.

88

:

Jason English (Host):

Yeah, that's awesome.

89

:

It's on my bucket list.

90

:

I've never had the chance to

play or not play, of course

91

:

not play, but, uh, to be there.

92

:

Yeah.

93

:

So that that's amazing.

94

:

I guess, is it, is it the history

and sort of the exclusivity of it?

95

:

That makes it a special room and the

fact that like, you know, like you

96

:

said, so many people have come through,

or is it the ambiance and the sound?

97

:

And the fact that I think it's like in

a strip mall, like what, what is it?

98

:

Is it, I mean, I think, yeah, I think you

said you alluded to like the, if you know,

99

:

all the songs that those walls have heard,

but like, what, what is it about it?

100

:

Do you think?

101

:

Lauren Lucas: I mean, I think it's

really all of it, but I mean, it is

102

:

cool that it's, it's never really

changed over all these years.

103

:

Um, and I believe it was, there's,

there's a great documentary about it.

104

:

Um, it's I'm at a loss for

exactly what it's called.

105

:

And, but, uh, you know, if you

could just Google documentary

106

:

about the bluebird, it's awesome.

107

:

I think it was in the eighties,

maybe Amy Kerlin started it.

108

:

And, um, actually a man who signed

me to one of my first deals and I

109

:

have kind of followed the bluebird.

110

:

him through his, um, career.

111

:

And he's followed me through mine.

112

:

His name is Tom Schuyler.

113

:

He is, is a hit writer who is one of

the, like the founding songwriters

114

:

who first started playing there.

115

:

He played the very first round

he's, you know, he's one of the, the

116

:

godfathers of the bluebird, if you will.

117

:

Uh, he and two or three other gentlemen.

118

:

And, um, I, you know, I think

then it was just a place where you

119

:

didn't have to have a full band.

120

:

You didn't have to entertain a

crowd like an artist on a stage.

121

:

It was really for that behind the scenes,

intimate feel of story behind the song.

122

:

Uh, you know, songwriters sitting

around in a circle, just literally

123

:

swapping songs because it's fun to hear.

124

:

You know, what the other person right

next to you, who is also doing this

125

:

professionally and day in day out

is thinking about these things and

126

:

creating these things, you know,

what did they got up their sleeve?

127

:

And, you know, it's just, it's kind of

a fun, um, it helps you raise your game.

128

:

You hear some amazing music and

for the audience, you do get that.

129

:

It's super intimate.

130

:

Nobody talks.

131

:

Nobody's allowed to talk.

132

:

You got to turn off your phone.

133

:

You got to, uh, sit quietly and

literally just listen to the lyrics to

134

:

the stories about how they came to be.

135

:

Uh, and so it's, it's just

really, really special.

136

:

And then after all this

time, It hasn't changed.

137

:

It's still only seats 85 people.

138

:

It's tiny, tiny, tiny.

139

:

You're scrunched up next to the, you

know, you're at a little cocktail

140

:

tables usually, or there are some

church pews in the back, but I mean,

141

:

you're, you're literally just kind of

sitting like right next to the table

142

:

next to you, cause it's so small.

143

:

Um,

144

:

and I don't know, it just feels like

this big living room where you're

145

:

getting to hear the stories behind

some of your favorite songs, you

146

:

know, songs that are probably the

soundtrack to most people's lives, you

147

:

know, it's, it's pretty incredible.

148

:

Jason English (Host):

Well, congrats on that.

149

:

Uh, that's, that's really cool.

150

:

And so you alluded to your, your

career, which is pretty varied.

151

:

And you're doing a lot today.

152

:

So I think you, you have a podcast that

you run a blog, you're writing songs.

153

:

You're a teacher of songwriting, which

we're going to talk about quite a bit.

154

:

You're you've been a musician, uh, and

it's been like folk rock Americana, a

155

:

little bit of Broadway musical stuff,

you know, way back when, I guess.

156

:

If you could describe your career

just in, in, you know, a few short

157

:

words or a few short themes, like

how, you know, how would you do that?

158

:

And, uh, is there a particular, not to

steal a phrase from Taylor Swift, but,

159

:

you know, is there a particular era, uh,

if you look back on that, was it like

160

:

the most, the most surprising or the

most, uh, the most enjoyable for you?

161

:

Lauren Lucas: Oh man.

162

:

Um, okay.

163

:

To sum it up in a few words, uh,

experiential chameleon, uh, and

164

:

just a wide breadth and what I mean

by that is I think I've, I think

165

:

I've now experienced every aspect of

the creative side of the business.

166

:

In other words, I have been unsigned.

167

:

I've been signed.

168

:

I've been signed to major labels.

169

:

I've been signed to major

publishing companies.

170

:

I've been signed to indie labels

and small publishing companies.

171

:

I've been grassroots.

172

:

I've been major label artists.

173

:

I've been, I've played in

stadiums and I've played at the

174

:

Bluebird and I've played for two

people at a local honky tonk.

175

:

I mean, you know, it just.

176

:

I'm on, I'm on the songwriter

side for other artists.

177

:

I'm out front as the artist.

178

:

I've

179

:

been fans.

180

:

I've been solo.

181

:

It.

182

:

I just think I've, I've probably at

this point experienced most sides on

183

:

the creative, on the creative side.

184

:

And, um, and I, I love it.

185

:

I love all of it.

186

:

Um, and so I just kind of

continue to experiment.

187

:

I think that's just in my nature.

188

:

I'm not, um, for whatever reason, I.

189

:

I don't shy away from

like, well, this looks fun.

190

:

Let me just try this, you know?

191

:

And, and, and then, you know, it's not

like most of the world knows who I am.

192

:

So no one's really paying

attention to if it fails, if it

193

:

succeeds or what's happening.

194

:

But you know, you're a lot, our lives

now do play out on social media.

195

:

And so, you know, it's up there

for everyone to see, you know?

196

:

Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I

started in community theater.

197

:

Uh, when I was three years old in

South Carolina, um, and you know,

198

:

did my first show with my sister, uh,

was singing, dancing, it was like a

199

:

musical review and I really, um, that,

that show, it was, it's a, it was a

200

:

review of pop songs dating back from

like the:

201

:

was then the 1980s and so I was three.

202

:

So like I was singing children's numbers,

like they would have like Sesame street

203

:

medleys and golden oldie medleys and

patriotic numbers and that kind of stuff.

204

:

Um, and then the adults would, would

sing jazz standards and great American

205

:

songbook type songs and current

eighties hits and everything in between.

206

:

And so it really instilled in me this love

for a variety of music, uh, and a chance

207

:

to kind of sample all of it, you know?

208

:

Uh, and so I just kind of went

with that for a long time.

209

:

I, I had opportunities to, uh, move

into musical theater at a young age.

210

:

but I also grew up listening to country

music because of my grandmother.

211

:

And so I always listen to

country radio with her and, and

212

:

had a love for that as well.

213

:

And then I've, you know, several times

my, my love for theater and country

214

:

have been able to, to collide, which

has been, um, which has been really fun.

215

:

to your point earlier, like, um,

I can't remember exactly what you

216

:

said, but like, A little weird.

217

:

Like, you know, not musical

theater and country.

218

:

Like, I don't know.

219

:

There's just, aren't usually things

that go together, but somehow

220

:

they keep intersecting in my life.

221

:

Jason English (Host): I

think I used the word crazy,

222

:

Lauren Lucas: crazy.

223

:

Yeah.

224

:

Jason English (Host): said it out

loud, I'm like, okay, hope she

225

:

doesn't take that the wrong way.

226

:

Uh, no, it's awesome.

227

:

Um, and you were nominated for a

Tony award kind of back in the day.

228

:

Uh, what role in that whole

process was that for him?

229

:

Lauren Lucas: Yeah.

230

:

So, uh, so I was nominated as a composer.

231

:

Is the term they use

because it was in a score.

232

:

I, what composers do is

different than what I really do.

233

:

I'm a songwriter, but, uh, I wrote a

song that ended up in a whole score for

234

:

the Broadway adaptation of the movie

urban cowboy, um, which is a country

235

:

music based movie

236

:

that ended up on Broadway as a musical.

237

:

So that's, that's the second time,

actually, those worlds collided for me.

238

:

Um, and so I was nominated as, as a.

239

:

As a composer, um, it, it was up

for, um, best score that year.

240

:

And, uh, I got to hear Sarah,

Jessica Parker say my name on the

241

:

microphone and on national television.

242

:

And that was cool, you know,

along with the list of all the

243

:

other folks who were on the score.

244

:

Um, but that was really, really fun.

245

:

Jason English (Host):

That's really, really cool.

246

:

You don't hear that.

247

:

That's why I reached out.

248

:

Cause I was like, Oh my gosh, this, this

person's got this completely diverse

249

:

sort of, uh, resume if you will, you

know, in terms of all the things.

250

:

So, um, yeah, I really appreciate

you sharing about that.

251

:

So, so with all that said.

252

:

Obviously you're still young.

253

:

Uh, what are you most curious

about at this point in your life?

254

:

Lauren Lucas: I think I'm, I'm

curious to figure out how to continue

255

:

to pursue a full time music career.

256

:

Now I'm a mom of a four year old.

257

:

So, uh, how to, how to

make those two things work.

258

:

Um, because there are still some

goals I'd like to reach and.

259

:

It just looks a little different

now on how to time management

260

:

and, um, and that kind of thing.

261

:

So navigating that keeps me curious.

262

:

Um, but also like keeps

me really fired up.

263

:

Um, I'm curious about, I've, I've had

the great fortune to have, um, some

264

:

songs placed in TV and film as well.

265

:

And.

266

:

I I continue to get opportunities to

write for those kinds of projects, and

267

:

I'm curious to try all, I mean, again,

this experiential thing that just keeps

268

:

following me around or something, I don't

know, but you know, sometimes I'll get

269

:

asked to write something that's really

pop, uh, something that you've never

270

:

heard from me on Spotify, let's say it's

something that's like in the background

271

:

that I just kind of keep to myself, but

you know, um, top lining for something

272

:

that's super, super pop, a pop track.

273

:

And then a folk Gillian Welch kind of

thing over here, or, um, I just recently

274

:

wrote a song for a children's animated,

a pitch for a children's animated series.

275

:

And it was kind of Randy Newman esque

and it's like, I just, I'm getting this

276

:

chance to just write all over the map.

277

:

And that, that keeps me curious

and also keeps me motivated.

278

:

Cause it's like, Oh, I've

never done that before.

279

:

Let's see if, if I do this well,

or if I just fall on my face.

280

:

I don't know.

281

:

Jason English (Host): And you know,

for you to have those opportunities,

282

:

obviously that's incredible, uh, and

then for you to pursue them and be able

283

:

to sort of execute that that's hard.

284

:

Cause I, it's hard enough, I think, to

write a song, which we're going to talk

285

:

about in more depth in a few minutes.

286

:

But to be able to kind of go back

across genres, I guess, and styles and

287

:

everything, how do you put yourself

in that space based on the situation,

288

:

you know, is it, is it all one in the

same and how do you, how do you kind

289

:

of work, work yourself through that?

290

:

Lauren Lucas: Yeah, I mean I would

say a lot of times it's pretty

291

:

different and I mean, I mean, part,

partly I'm learning my process.

292

:

I don't always know what my

process is until I get into it.

293

:

But what I'm finding for myself in, in

this, in the scenario of, of writing

294

:

for more sync based projects for TV

film, I usually will, once I know like,

295

:

okay, here's what they're looking for.

296

:

I just did something where they

wanted, they wanted it to sound

297

:

like the, the band The Shins.

298

:

Well, I've, I've, never listened

to The Shins on purpose.

299

:

No offense to Shins fans, I just,

it has like skipped my radar.

300

:

And it's just not, not

in my general wheelhouse.

301

:

So I had to like, Figure that out,

you know, and first of all, I called

302

:

a collaborator who is much more

efficient in the studio than I am.

303

:

And I, because they wanted something

like the shins, I thought, okay,

304

:

probably a male vocal for this.

305

:

And so for a variety of reasons, I

called my friend Brandon and was like,

306

:

Hey, you want to work on this together?

307

:

And, um, I thought it would probably

be pretty in his wheelhouse.

308

:

And it was so a, I kind

of got a little support.

309

:

Um, and then, I just

put together a playlist.

310

:

I like to put together playlists of a lot

of things that sound like what they're

311

:

looking for and just listen to it over

a couple days in the car or just doing

312

:

whatever and just almost letting it

like marinate and like get into my body.

313

:

I know that sounds kind of weird,

but like just really embody that

314

:

the sound, the phrasing, the

instruments that are being used.

315

:

I'm kind of like subconsciously

listening for all that stuff.

316

:

And then when I'm ready to

like sit down and write like

317

:

with Brandon, we mapped out.

318

:

You know, they gave us a

reference track, like they wanted

319

:

it like this particular song.

320

:

It's like, okay, well, let's,

let's definitely use that tempo and

321

:

maybe we even write that structure.

322

:

So it was like verse chorus, a little

turnaround and then back to a verse and

323

:

then like several choruses repeated.

324

:

So we're like, okay, let's, why don't we

just use that structure, use that tempo.

325

:

We're going to mostly use those

instruments because again, they want it.

326

:

It's a sound alike.

327

:

Um, but we can't rewrite that song.

328

:

So now we have to do a different

melody and different lyric.

329

:

Um, but

330

:

you know, the shins write a lot

differently than Taylor Swift does.

331

:

Uh, you know, Taylor Swift writes

332

:

a lot differently than Randy Newman.

333

:

Even the words and the vernacular

that's used can be different.

334

:

So paying attention to that kind of stuff.

335

:

Um, I mean, frankly, the shin song

is, uh, It was so vague lyrically

336

:

that it was, it was almost hard.

337

:

It was really hard for me to write

because I'm like, I don't, I don't

338

:

even know what we're shooting for here.

339

:

Like subject matter wise, you know, like

340

:

it's just the lyrics didn't make a ton

of sense to me on the reference track.

341

:

And so it's like, okay, well, how

do we write a song that is so vague?

342

:

It could mean literally.

343

:

Anything, you know, um, and so it, it

was a fun challenge, you know, now,

344

:

to be fair, we haven't heard back.

345

:

So I assume we, we didn't get the

placement, but I, what we both looked

346

:

at each other and we're like, I

think we, I think we nailed it to

347

:

our best ability, at least, you know,

348

:

Jason English (Host): that's

a very specific request, you

349

:

know, like sound like the shins.

350

:

I mean, that's like very specific,

which is, you know, interesting.

351

:

Obviously they knew what

they were looking for.

352

:

And then when I ever think

about the shins, I think

353

:

about the movie garden state.

354

:

Did you ever see

355

:

Lauren Lucas: Oh yes.

356

:

Are they on that soundtrack?

357

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

358

:

Yeah.

359

:

Yeah.

360

:

They're on that side.

361

:

I forgot the song, but it's kind of, it

was kind of the song that I think that

362

:

that movie sort of like propelled them

to, you know, pretty good notoriety.

363

:

Um, but that.

364

:

That movie was incredible

from a music perspective.

365

:

The soundtrack was, was really good

and they were like the showcase.

366

:

So

367

:

Lauren Lucas: I remember,

368

:

that song or that movie being out.

369

:

And at the time, how

influential that soundtrack was.

370

:

I feel like that was one of the first

371

:

movies in modern era where it was like,

Oh, music, music was just as big of a part

372

:

of this as the script and as the actors.

373

:

And it was almost like its own character.

374

:

Jason English (Host): mention a

couple of your, I want to talk about

375

:

a couple of your, of the singles

that are more recent than, than not.

376

:

Um, you mentioned that you were

a mother, so congrats on that.

377

:

I think, uh, I think you

were saying before we started

378

:

recording, Four years old.

379

:

Is it, is it a boy or girl?

380

:

Lauren Lucas: A little boy.

381

:

Jason English (Host): Little boy.

382

:

Awesome.

383

:

All right.

384

:

Well, good.

385

:

Um, well congrats on that.

386

:

And you have a song called Motherlode.

387

:

Uh, that's out and this is

sort of the, uh, an anthem

388

:

for all the mothers out there.

389

:

Um, which is awesome.

390

:

And you, I think you co wrote

that with, uh, uh, Monette Maddox.

391

:

Is that

392

:

right?

393

:

Lauren Lucas: Yeah.

394

:

I mean,

395

:

Jason English (Host): out is, uh,

you know, it's, it's motherhood is

396

:

hard parent parenting is difficult,

uh, but you sort of acknowledge

397

:

the difficulty and the challenge.

398

:

But then it's basically, you're also

saying you wouldn't trade anything,

399

:

you know, uh, anything for it.

400

:

Right.

401

:

And so, soon after you became a

mom, uh, or is this inspire this

402

:

Lauren Lucas: Well, for sure.

403

:

My child inspired it just

because you really, at least in

404

:

my experience, I did not know.

405

:

I just, I knew nothing.

406

:

I knew nothing.

407

:

I knew nothing about what to expect.

408

:

Uh, I have a sister who's

10 years older than I am.

409

:

So I didn't like grow up with

a ton of siblings or anyone

410

:

younger than me to like, be a mom

figure to, or anything like that.

411

:

So, um, I mean, I just knew,

Very, very, very little about

412

:

kids or babies before I had one.

413

:

And so, um, for sure inspired by my

son and my experience of motherhood.

414

:

And I actually, I think more that

like my experience of motherhood, you

415

:

know, like, um, that's what really

inspired the song because I think

416

:

the biggest thing that surprised me

about motherhood now, I became a mom.

417

:

Like a day before COVID lockdown.

418

:

So, uh, there was a lot of isolation and

a lot of togetherness for a long time.

419

:

And he was premature.

420

:

So we really took a, a really

serious stance on, on staying

421

:

safe just for his health.

422

:

I think even had it not been

pandemic times, no one, no one

423

:

warned me about how isolating.

424

:

Uh, new motherhood is you, you just, you

were always on for this little being and.

425

:

I mean, if you're not washing a bottle,

you're folding a blanket or you're

426

:

watching the monitor or you're, you

know, it, it, it is a constant thing

427

:

that is the mom's job, you know, and,

and not, um, not because dads can't

428

:

do it, but, um, it just, I mean, we're

literally being chemically rewired

429

:

after motherhood, you know, I mean,

it just, uh, Anyway, it's hard to have

430

:

time for yourself to do anything for

yourself and to even think of anything

431

:

else, especially early, early, early,

432

:

early on.

433

:

And so, uh, I just didn't understand

how isolating that can be.

434

:

And, um, so anyway, I, I definitely

wrote it from my perspective, uh, or

435

:

that's how, what it was inspired by.

436

:

It was my perspective of my

437

:

hood.

438

:

Um, and, and then, you know, even

as he's gotten older, Uh, you know,

439

:

just in this little, little stage.

440

:

I mean, he wants moms, he goes

through little stages where he

441

:

wants dad, but they're like blips,

but for the most part he wants mom.

442

:

So like mom is still on, you know?

443

:

And of course you're trying to

savor that because you know,

444

:

it's not going to last forever.

445

:

And also it's, it takes a ton of energy.

446

:

And so, um, it's, it's both and,

uh, and Manet is a mom of two.

447

:

She has an incredible story.

448

:

She, um, she's a mom,

she's a business owner.

449

:

She's a wife.

450

:

Uh, she's a cancer survivor.

451

:

She is a songwriter.

452

:

She has started chasing some of

her dreams later in life and is

453

:

just like full throttle ahead.

454

:

I mean, she's, she's an incredible

woman and, um, not to speak for her.

455

:

And I'm sure she wouldn't have

listed those things in that order

456

:

of priority to her, but at any rate,

so she has her own, uh, view of

457

:

motherhood and she is on the other.

458

:

the further down the line stage,

whereas I have a four year old, she

459

:

has kids in college and out of college.

460

:

And so the first

461

:

verse was for me and the second

verse was for her because

462

:

there's that time travel thing.

463

:

Um, so, I mean, she was the

perfect person to write it with.

464

:

I had had that title hanging around

for a while and I just, just really

465

:

hadn't given myself the time to

sit down and really work on it yet.

466

:

But then when we had a co write coming

up, uh, I took it to her and she loved it.

467

:

And, um, And it, yeah, I think

she was a perfect person for it.

468

:

Jason English (Host): I wanna read

the first verse and the chorus, but

469

:

it's good to know that, uh, the son

of Lauren Lucas is a, is a mama's boy.

470

:

That's, that's great.

471

:

That's good.

472

:

Lauren Lucas: is at least as of now.

473

:

Jason English (Host): As, as he should be.

474

:

Uh, alright, so here's the first verse.

475

:

So it's another day in the

life of hitting the jackpot.

476

:

Up before dawn with an elbow to the face.

477

:

Your little man don't feel good.

478

:

He's crying beside you.

479

:

You got a husband sound asleep

while you're wide awake.

480

:

That's good.

481

:

right?

482

:

That's good.

483

:

Yeah,

484

:

that's good.

485

:

The elbow to the face and the uh, yeah.

486

:

Yeah.

487

:

The husband, the husbands,

we find a way to sleep.

488

:

I don't know what it is, but we always

find a way to sleep through everything.

489

:

I don't know.

490

:

Lauren Lucas: Well, and my

491

:

sleep, uh, changed after motherhood.

492

:

Like I, I will wake up at the

493

:

top of the hat now and,

and Dan really does.

494

:

He's, he could sleep through a

train coming through our room.

495

:

Like it.

496

:

It is not fair and it pisses me off

a lot, but it's also not his fault.

497

:

He just is a sound sleeper and I'm not.

498

:

Yeah.

499

:

Jason English (Host): All right.

500

:

So here's the, I think it was the chorus

from, from again, the Motherlode by, uh,

501

:

by Lauren Lucas, but you wouldn't trade

a minute even for a longer night's sleep.

502

:

No, you wouldn't take a million.

503

:

Even when the shit gets

deep, you prayed for it.

504

:

You're made for it.

505

:

Couldn't wait another day for it.

506

:

When the hardest jobs, the one

you love the most, that's how

507

:

you know you hit the motherload.

508

:

That's really good.

509

:

That's really good.

510

:

And then like the first, yeah.

511

:

Back to the first line of the first verse.

512

:

It's like, you know, Uh, it's

another day in the life of

513

:

hitting the jackpot jackpot.

514

:

And I imagine that's a tight,

the motherlode references is

515

:

a tie back to the jackpot,

516

:

whether that's intentional

or not, but like that works.

517

:

Right.

518

:

So yeah, that's, that's really,

that's, that's really, really good.

519

:

Yeah.

520

:

That's really good.

521

:

Um, well, awesome.

522

:

Uh, do you, are you, uh, are you

planning to have more kids or is the, uh,

523

:

no more

524

:

Lauren Lucas: We're one and done

for, for a variety of reasons.

525

:

Uh, but yeah, we are, we are, we are one

and done and that felt, it really does.

526

:

It

527

:

feels

528

:

right.

529

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

530

:

No, that's great.

531

:

Um, I have three, uh, and I had

them, I mean, you know, got married

532

:

and had kids really, really young

and I wouldn't trade it, trade it

533

:

for anything, but it's, it's a lot.

534

:

So, um, but this, this is a great song,

uh, that's available, uh, on, on streaming

535

:

platforms and on YouTube and everything.

536

:

Um, so that's, that's really nice.

537

:

And the other one.

538

:

I think this is, I think this might've

been the clip, hopefully I got this right.

539

:

This might've been the clip from, uh, the

blue bird that this is how I heard this

540

:

song, but it's called first time feeling.

541

:

And I, I guess my question to start

is, uh, you know, any relationship

542

:

is difficult and we just talked about

kids throwing the kid in the mix with

543

:

careers and everything else that can

easily sort of hijack romance and

544

:

date nights and All those things.

545

:

Right.

546

:

And so, again, this is a really fun song.

547

:

Um, I think that sort of reminds us all

that we all crave sort of the, you know,

548

:

the honeymoon phase, I guess, in the, in

the dating phase, is that, is that fair?

549

:

Um, so was this also inspired by your son?

550

:

Was this also inspired by

your son and having kids?

551

:

Or is this just more of a, a nod to,

uh, you know, relationships and, you

552

:

know, reminding ourselves to put that

first and have fun with everything.

553

:

It's very

554

:

romantic.

555

:

Lauren Lucas: I mean, overall the latter

just, I think it was more inspired by,

556

:

uh, marriage and long term relationship.

557

:

And I wrote this with two girlfriends,

uh, Kimberly Dawn and Andrea Young,

558

:

and all three of us were married.

559

:

And, um, Kimberly has,

She might have three kids.

560

:

She has maybe even more.

561

:

She might have four anyway.

562

:

Um, so yes, kids are not life gets

busy relationships, you know, After

563

:

that first year or so, the honeymoon

phase starts to wear off a bit.

564

:

Uh, and, and then the longer you're

together, I mean, the more life happens.

565

:

I mean, my husband and I have

been through, you know, uh, ill

566

:

parents and, um, miscarriage and.

567

:

Lots of jobs and, and then great

times to, you know, we've traveled

568

:

the world together and have

569

:

had a lot of fun and gone to great

shows and have great friends.

570

:

And you know, there's, it's all of it.

571

:

And it life is really rich and it just

moves into this new layer, I guess.

572

:

But, um, but sometimes you really, Have

to work at keeping that spark alive.

573

:

And so that's, that was really

the inspiration for this.

574

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

575

:

No, I mean, I, I think literally

everybody that's in a relationship

576

:

can relate to this song, you know?

577

:

Um, so yeah, that's, that's great.

578

:

And it's just fun.

579

:

Uh, it's fun.

580

:

So like, again, not to, not to go

too crazy here, but this is, um,

581

:

yeah, I think this is the chorus.

582

:

So in driving down highway one, chasing

our dreams in the setting sun, the whole

583

:

world on a string dip in our toes where

the sand and the ocean meet living for

584

:

the freedom, babe, you know, we need it.

585

:

Come on.

586

:

Like you mean it.

587

:

Give me that first kiss.

588

:

That first time feeling.

589

:

Yeah.

590

:

That's awesome.

591

:

Yeah.

592

:

Good.

593

:

Yeah.

594

:

That's really, really well done.

595

:

Um, yeah.

596

:

And it's hard, I guess, like, what

do you, what do you and Dan do to

597

:

keep that first time feeling going?

598

:

Like, practically?

599

:

You know, is it as easy as

a date night for you all?

600

:

Lauren Lucas: Yeah.

601

:

I mean, date nights go a

long way, especially for me.

602

:

Uh, I guess you'd have to ask

him, I guess, uh, some of it, but.

603

:

I, you know, I'm very stereotypical

woman where I want to talk.

604

:

I want to talk about our feelings.

605

:

Uh, but, but truly, like if, if we are

ships passing in the night and so busy,

606

:

and we're only talking about transactional

things, having to do with calendars and

607

:

getting our son here and there and work.

608

:

Jason English (Host): right?

609

:

Lauren Lucas: And

610

:

if it's when it gets just really

transactional, most of the time,

611

:

uh, a couple of weeks of that.

612

:

And I really started to feel it.

613

:

And it's like, okay, let's,

We used to be really good,

614

:

especially coming out of COVID.

615

:

I had decided, you know what, we're just

going to spend the money on a sitter.

616

:

And we're going to every Friday,

every Friday, we went out to dinner.

617

:

That was great when life was still a

bit slower, but now that things are

618

:

in full swing again, um, it's harder

to do that like every single week.

619

:

Um, but we do, uh, we do have time

together every couple of weeks.

620

:

We'll go out for dinner.

621

:

Um, if not even more than that, we're

going out to a show tomorrow night.

622

:

Uh, which will be really fun.

623

:

We love football, so we'll, we'll

try to catch football games together.

624

:

He's a huge soccer fan.

625

:

We'll go to soccer games.

626

:

So, I mean, really just that one on one

time, particularly if it can involve.

627

:

Dinner so that there's a conversation to

be had or even last night, I, he flew in

628

:

late, uh, well, I say late, like around

eight o'clock from a business meeting.

629

:

And, uh, and I went to a

friend's show and I got in right

630

:

around the same time he did.

631

:

The babysitter left and we

just heated up leftovers.

632

:

You know, my son was down for, for bed

already and we heated up leftovers and

633

:

just, you chatted at the table, you

know, and it was like, that was awesome.

634

:

Cause it had been a few days

since I'd even seen him, you know?

635

:

Jason English (Host): That's awesome.

636

:

Um, one, one question about Nashville,

just speaking of like the music industry.

637

:

And then I want to, I do want to ask

you a few questions about songwriting.

638

:

So a few of the people I've talked to are

based in Nashville, you know, they're,

639

:

they're trying to figure that out.

640

:

And then a number of them are

based, you know, elsewhere.

641

:

And it's always interesting

for me because, you know, you

642

:

know, Nashville is Nashville.

643

:

Um, and it's, you know, the machine

and it's the history and it's

644

:

like everyone's there, right?

645

:

And I asked people that don't live there.

646

:

Like, is it a disadvantage to you

that you live in texas or that

647

:

you live in colorado or wherever?

648

:

I guess for you, um, having

been in Nashville for so

649

:

long, how do you see that?

650

:

Do you, do you think that like You

improve your chances exponentially.

651

:

If you're an artist or a musician to try

to like, quote unquote, make it in, in,

652

:

in, in BC and be heard to be in Nashville,

or do you think in this day and age

653

:

with, you know, the technology and all

the, all the things that artists have

654

:

access to, to publish their stuff and to

get out there that like, it's not that.

655

:

It's not needed as much as it may

have been, you know, 20 years ago.

656

:

Lauren Lucas: Yeah.

657

:

I mean, it probably

depends on someone's goal.

658

:

If, if the goal is.

659

:

To just make a living or make

some money, uh, creating music.

660

:

You can find ways to do that wherever

you are, you know, whether that's

661

:

through an online service or recording

and uploading your own songs to DSPs

662

:

or, um, playing local shows or like

whatever that is, there are ways to

663

:

create music and, and maybe even get

paid for that, you know, all over.

664

:

I think if your goal is to, uh, write.

665

:

hit songs for current recording

artists who are on the major

666

:

playlists or radio or, um, getting

songs placed in TV and film.

667

:

I think there's a huge advantage

of being in being in one of those

668

:

music centers, you know, depending on

your style and what you want to do.

669

:

But

670

:

like, if it's TV film, then, you know,

LA, Nashville, New York, Chicago, Atlanta.

671

:

I mean, those are some

places you might want to be.

672

:

If you want to be writing for

country artists, I mean, Nashville's.

673

:

The place, you know, or Texas in Austin.

674

:

I mean,

675

:

I know that there are

exceptions to every rule.

676

:

I'm sure you could find

a handful of writers.

677

:

Who have never moved

678

:

and are having success.

679

:

Most of the ones I know who don't live

here anymore, had a foundation here first,

680

:

and then they've, they've had enough

success or enough relationships where

681

:

they can move away and come back and

visit quite often, or they're, they're

682

:

so far on top of their game that they

can just leave town and, and there's a

683

:

placeholder for them because they're that

undeniable and have that track record,

684

:

you know, but if you don't have that

685

:

kind of track record, I think being here

or wherever, you know, the music is that

686

:

you want to make is a huge advantage.

687

:

Uh, it just,

688

:

sorry to put a finer point on it, but even

last night I went to a French showcase

689

:

and I saw about four other people that

a couple of people I had met before and

690

:

I would like to get to know them better.

691

:

Cause I, I think there could be some, some

advantages to collaborating in the future.

692

:

Um, and one of them,

Asked me my name again.

693

:

Like I just assumed she knew who I was.

694

:

Cause we had met a time or two before and

she's like, remind me your name again.

695

:

And she's like, Oh yeah, I remember

now you're friends with so and so.

696

:

Um, but it's just like that.

697

:

It's like, Oh, right.

698

:

So she didn't, she didn't remember me.

699

:

And now she met me again

and she saw my face again.

700

:

And it's like, you gotta be

here for that experience, you

701

:

know, for that exact reason,

702

:

because I just got in

front of that person again.

703

:

And you know, I've, I've talked

to probably three or four other

704

:

people and it's just like.

705

:

It's just, it's relationship building.

706

:

I mean, it's, that's

every industry, right?

707

:

It's no different.

708

:

It's just

709

:

relationships.

710

:

You like doing business

with people you like.

711

:

So get to know people and you

got, you do that by being here.

712

:

Yes.

713

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

714

:

Great point.

715

:

Um, that makes, that makes a lot of sense.

716

:

So in the Nashville area is a

school, Belmont Belmont university.

717

:

Right.

718

:

I think you attended there.

719

:

You're an alum and, uh, fairly

recently, I think you were songwriting.

720

:

Is that, is that

721

:

correct?

722

:

Lauren Lucas: Yeah, I think

:

723

:

I can't remember now, but yes.

724

:

Jason English (Host): That's awesome.

725

:

That's, that's actually really

incredible to be a teacher

726

:

of songwriting at a school.

727

:

That's so close, closely tied to the

Nashville scene, uh, on a topic, you

728

:

know, it's not like you're teaching,

um, you know, accounting, right?

729

:

Like you're teaching, you're teaching

songwriting, probably the, the core,

730

:

the core topic that probably most

of the students that are attending

731

:

Belmont like want to pursue, right.

732

:

Or, or, you know, have an orbit

around, So like, I think that probably

733

:

it brings a lot of pressure, but,

um, so I have a few questions about

734

:

that, which I think is fascinating.

735

:

So can anyone write a song?

736

:

Do you think?

737

:

Lauren Lucas: Yes, it, it might.

738

:

I think there are varying degrees

of, of good and of course, opinion

739

:

and taste matters too, but it is

a process or it can be a process

740

:

and anyone can follow that process.

741

:

Jason English (Host): Okay.

742

:

Okay.

743

:

Interesting.

744

:

Have there been in your, in your time

as a teacher, have there been students

745

:

that, you know, in the course of the

semester that came in and you're, you're

746

:

kind of like, oh boy, you know, uh, and,

and then by the end of the semester,

747

:

It's like, okay, they, they've got it.

748

:

They, they, they've sort of not mastered

the process, but they get the process

749

:

and you can see them sort of developing.

750

:

And then have you seen some, some people

come in and just without teaching them

751

:

anything they've got, they've got it.

752

:

Or that, you know, that sort of

like, uh, natural ability to, to

753

:

put words on paper, Have you seen

both of those scenarios play out?

754

:

Lauren Lucas: Yeah, I have.

755

:

Um, I'm thinking of a student right now

in the first scenario of like someone

756

:

who came in and he's a music major.

757

:

His drums is his first instrument

and he came in and had just this very

758

:

eclectic style about him musically.

759

:

And

760

:

I mean, even kind of some

foundational pieces of rhyme

761

:

structure, uh, rhyme scheme and

structure and that kind of stuff.

762

:

Just, he didn't know, you know, I mean,

he, he just, what I find is a lot of

763

:

students come in, uh, into the first class

that I teach song one, the first level.

764

:

And it, it literally is like, well,

this is what I was inspired to say this.

765

:

And so I just said it, you know, but

they don't put a lot of It's like,

766

:

well, it came to my head, so I wrote

it down and now it's in the song and I

767

:

moved on and now I'm writing the next

line or, you know, and I finished the

768

:

song and I never look at it again and

never improve it and never edit it,

769

:

you know, and that's what a lot of

students do when they first come in.

770

:

And the more we started

to uncover this process.

771

:

And he was hungry for it.

772

:

I mean, you know, it's, it is the

80, 20 rule, you know, everywhere

773

:

it seems like, but it really is.

774

:

That's, I mean, it's like 20

percent of, of students are really,

775

:

really, really hungry for it.

776

:

And.

777

:

Um, and 20 percent of the students already

have like that special mojo thing about

778

:

him, you know, and 80 percent of the

students are like, they fall somewhere

779

:

in the average to less than average.

780

:

You know what I mean?

781

:

It just is.

782

:

It just is.

783

:

And this particular student, man, I

mean, he just, he worked his butt off.

784

:

He was on fire about it.

785

:

He was lit up.

786

:

He started to improve and

get better and better.

787

:

And then I had him next semester

in the next level class.

788

:

Um, and He's just gotten better and

better and better and more solid.

789

:

And by better, I mean, he's kept

that eclectic style about him.

790

:

He has not lost like his

core, which is so cool.

791

:

Um, but he's just more

consistently writing songs that.

792

:

are more on the pulse of commercial

music and that's what he wanted.

793

:

So, and what he wants.

794

:

So, So, that was cool.

795

:

And then I have several students

who came in with just already

796

:

really at the top of their game.

797

:

And one student in

particular comes to mind.

798

:

And I mean, she does it all.

799

:

She records, she mixes,

she writes, she plays.

800

:

She does everything.

801

:

Everything a hundred percent.

802

:

She can collaborate,

but she doesn't have to.

803

:

I mean, and she's so good now.

804

:

Like I, I can't even, it's

scary to think where she's

805

:

going to be five, 10 years from

806

:

now,

807

:

Jason English (Host): so how truthful

is the whole notion of, country

808

:

music is three chords in the truth.

809

:

how, like, is there truth to that, famous

expression about, country music and how

810

:

it just, it's, it's as simple as that.

811

:

at its core, is that, is

that an accurate statement?

812

:

I

813

:

don't know.

814

:

Yeah.

815

:

Lauren Lucas: Well, the three

chords part, I would argue.

816

:

Yes.

817

:

Can be true.

818

:

Um, I mean, you really

don't need more than that.

819

:

And a lot of country songs don't

maybe four, if you add the minor

820

:

six in there and maybe there's four.

821

:

But, um, I mean, really

three or four chords.

822

:

You don't hear a whole lot more

than that in country music.

823

:

Again, some artists are, you know,

edge on the side, more of pop or a

824

:

little more complicated, but I mean,

those real straight down the middle

825

:

country, uh, artists, it's, it's

really, um, simple structure and

826

:

simple chord structure and everything.

827

:

So I do think the three

chords can be true.

828

:

And I think the truth part, um, is in my

opinion, a little misinterpreted, maybe.

829

:

I think that.

830

:

Jason English (Host): Okay.

831

:

Right.

832

:

Right.

833

:

Lauren Lucas: you don't always have

to write the God's honest truth.

834

:

It's writing the essence

of the human experience.

835

:

It's, it's the, it's

writing the human truth.

836

:

And sometimes you can

imagine what that is.

837

:

If you haven't lived through it yet.

838

:

But you can conjure up what that human

experience and the essence of the truth

839

:

is, even if you haven't lived it out,

or if you're living it through, if

840

:

you're going to write a song inspired by

someone else who went through something,

841

:

um, it's, it's your perspective of

their truth, which is then your truth.

842

:

But it, it doesn't mean that like,

I'm going to sit down and, and write,

843

:

necessarily write a song about.

844

:

Having a podcast interview today,

you know, like just because that's

845

:

the God truth of what happened in

my afternoon, you know, and then

846

:

I'm going to go pick my son up from

his summer camp, like I, you know.

847

:

Maybe I'll put that in there somewhere.

848

:

I don't know, but I wouldn't

suggest people limit themselves to

849

:

the God honest truth all the time.

850

:

Sometimes, sometimes, yes, a great song

will come out of what really, really

851

:

happened, but, um, there's poetic license.

852

:

There's, there's lots of different

ways to get to the essence

853

:

and that's to me, what, what

854

:

the truth is.

855

:

Jason English (Host): Okay.

856

:

That's really, really

well said in your class.

857

:

Uh, do you get into the whole aspect

of, let's say that the, the student

858

:

that you were talking about, who's the

drummer, let's say that he's more poetic

859

:

or more, um, artistic, if you will.

860

:

And then Someone like me who, you

know, I used to be a journalist, so

861

:

it's like I see the sky is blue and

I'm going to be like, okay, the sky

862

:

is blue, you know, and, uh, I don't

have a lot of creativity when it comes

863

:

to comparing it to something else.

864

:

And, you know, all those, all those

things in your class, do you actually

865

:

teach people sort of both ends of that

spectrum, you know, or is it, do you

866

:

kind of lean in and let them sort of

be themselves when it comes to, you

867

:

know, more literal or more artistic?

868

:

Lauren Lucas: I oftentimes I'll even

get students who, um, About half

869

:

the room will say, gosh, I wish I

could write more metaphorically.

870

:

And they'll look at some

of the students in the room

871

:

who use metaphor really well.

872

:

And they're like, gosh, I wish

I could just write like that.

873

:

And then the students who are, are used to

writing more metaphorically are like, man,

874

:

I wish I could just say the plain thing.

875

:

I wish I could just say how I

feel, you know, and sometimes just

876

:

write that straight ahead thing.

877

:

So it's like the grass is always greener.

878

:

Um.

879

:

But ultimately, I think you

have to find your own style.

880

:

There are plenty of, of celebrity

songwriters and artists who, um,

881

:

who write plainly and just say it.

882

:

And then there are plenty who are

very poetic and metaphorical and

883

:

then a little combination of both.

884

:

But we do, we do work on.

885

:

Um, imagery and doing object writing, so

object writing, not, not for the sake of

886

:

conjuring up lyrics, but just learning how

to dive really deep into your imagination.

887

:

We do object writing, um, exercises

where, I mean, you literally just

888

:

imagine walking on a busy city street.

889

:

What are you seeing?

890

:

What are you

891

:

hearing?

892

:

And, and can you write a paragraph

about it without telling us anything?

893

:

Only use language that shows

us, you know, a purse swinging

894

:

back and forth, tap, tap,

tapping on a woman's leg.

895

:

Uh, The clickety clack of high heels as

the world rushes by the, the honking of a

896

:

taxi, uh, whatever it is, you know, it's

like, how much description can you use?

897

:

And can you use all of your senses?

898

:

Not just what you see in here, which

are the kind of the ones we go to,

899

:

but what is the sidewalk tastes like?

900

:

What is the, uh, I don't know what

is the inside of the taxi smell?

901

:

Like, I don't, I don't know.

902

:

Like, I just get weird about it

903

:

and just see what's there.

904

:

Not because you're not

trying to write a lyric.

905

:

You're just trying to train

your imagination to get going.

906

:

Jason English (Host): Okay.

907

:

I'm going to put you on

the spot in two ways.

908

:

One, I'm just going to ask you

a question about song, like the

909

:

songwriters out there that you

look up to the most past, present.

910

:

Which name comes to mind for you?

911

:

Lauren Lucas: The very

first one was James Taylor.

912

:

And the second one, uh, is, uh,

a woman named Jonathan Brooke.

913

:

Although I don't write anything like

either of them, but I have found that

914

:

some of my greatest, uh, Inspirations

and if like, if I, and I've done this,

915

:

I've made like my playlist of like my

all time favorite artists and songs.

916

:

And my music doesn't sound like them, but.

917

:

They are the ones I will go back to and

listen to over and over and over the

918

:

same way Dan listens to Def Leppard.

919

:

I'll listen to James Taylor, you know.

920

:

Um, so I mean, I, I would say James

Taylor, Jonathan Brooke, um, huge

921

:

fan, uh, in more modern day of

Natalie Hemby here in Nashville.

922

:

Um, Hillary Lindsey.

923

:

Nicole Galleon, um, Matresa Berg,

you know, um, uh, Tom Douglas.

924

:

I mean, there, there are just some, um,

925

:

oh gosh, there's so, there's

too many to even probably name,

926

:

but that, that's a handful.

927

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

928

:

Lauren Lucas: Uh,

929

:

John Mayer.

930

:

I love John Mayer's writing.

931

:

I

932

:

Jason English (Host): okay.

933

:

Yeah.

934

:

Yeah.

935

:

Well, so John, so he's, you know,

household name, the other names

936

:

that again, no disrespect to them.

937

:

They're not household names, right.

938

:

For someone that isn't in Nashville, those

names might be pretty recognizable, but

939

:

like, is that, do, do songwriters care

that they're sort of the, uh, The men

940

:

and women behind the curtain, you know,

or, or is it, do they actually take pride

941

:

in the fact that like, you know, there's

a hit or there's a big, a big, a big,

942

:

single or big record and they're the,

they're the actually the brains behind it.

943

:

Lauren Lucas: think so.

944

:

I mean, I'm an artist writer.

945

:

So I, I enjoy, frankly,

I enjoy both sides.

946

:

I enjoy being behind

the scenes and I enjoy

947

:

writing for artists, but I also enjoy

being out front and singing the songs too.

948

:

But there are a lot of writers here in

Nashville, Tom Douglas being one of them.

949

:

I think he probably enjoys his anonymity

and, um, you know, he's really serious

950

:

about his craft and what he does.

951

:

And he works at it every single day.

952

:

And, um, even though he doesn't have

to anymore, uh, you, you may not know

953

:

his name, but you know, the house that

built me, you know, loves the only house,

954

:

you know, Natalie

955

:

pontoon rainbow by Casey Musgraves.

956

:

I mean, like the list goes

957

:

Jason English (Host): No,

958

:

totally.

959

:

Lauren Lucas: um, you know, their

songs, you just don't know their names.

960

:

And I think

961

:

Probably they like that, you know,

962

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

963

:

No, that's great.

964

:

All right.

965

:

Well, the other way I'm

going to put you on the spot

966

:

because you are a teacher or songwriter,

I'm going to, I'm going to challenge

967

:

your notion that anyone can write a song.

968

:

Okay.

969

:

So I'm going to show you, I'm going

to show you some words on a page.

970

:

So can you, can you verify for our

audience that you've never seen

971

:

these words

972

:

Lauren Lucas: That is.

973

:

That is correct.

974

:

I've never seen these.

975

:

Jason English (Host): Okay.

976

:

And you, you may regret seeing them now.

977

:

I don't know.

978

:

All right.

979

:

So this is, um, again, I

don't know if this is a poem.

980

:

I don't know if this is just

981

:

whatever.

982

:

Uh, but I was like, okay,

maybe I can write a song.

983

:

And so this is, there's no real

personal, uh, connection here.

984

:

It's just, you know, Instead of writing

about a woman from my perspective and

985

:

her beauty and, um, her looks and,

and whatever, I find that obviously

986

:

attractive, but what, what does she

like as a person and like this, her

987

:

spirit, right?

988

:

So I wanted to kind of like,

you know, uh, call that out.

989

:

So I'm just going to read this to

990

:

you.

991

:

My, I'm gonna have a couple of

992

:

asks.

993

:

One is, you know, uh, and it's not

really about this, but I'm, I'm just

994

:

wondering, like, is this something that

again, if, if I was a student in your

995

:

class and I don't know if you do this,

but like, Hey, go off and write something

996

:

and come back and bring it to me.

997

:

And let's like, walk through.

998

:

I just want to know, is this

something to start from?

999

:

Or would you.

:

00:50:20,005 --> 00:50:22,965

Even, you know, take a couple of steps

back and, and kind of go in a different

:

00:50:22,965 --> 00:50:26,185

direction, but let me just read it

to you and then, uh, and then they'll

:

00:50:26,185 --> 00:50:27,545

give you a time to, to think about it.

:

00:50:27,545 --> 00:50:30,385

So there's a sweet spirit

behind your stunning eyes.

:

00:50:30,835 --> 00:50:33,355

It's a spirit that's

pure with no compromise.

:

00:50:33,775 --> 00:50:37,685

Your beauty is its manifest

manifestation in the flesh with

:

00:50:37,685 --> 00:50:39,445

your smile so wide framed by lips.

:

00:50:39,445 --> 00:50:42,535

So fresh, sweet spirit,

speak to me tonight.

:

00:50:42,635 --> 00:50:44,745

Sweet spirit wrap around me tight.

:

00:50:44,925 --> 00:50:47,215

I want to bottle you up and

drink you all night, please.

:

00:50:47,215 --> 00:50:48,295

Sweet spirit speak

:

00:50:48,295 --> 00:50:48,495

to me

:

00:50:48,495 --> 00:50:48,865

tonight.

:

00:50:49,180 --> 00:50:49,660

Lauren Lucas: Mm hmm.

:

00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,240

Jason English (Host): My, my

thought here again is the beauty.

:

00:50:56,090 --> 00:50:56,510

Yes.

:

00:50:56,510 --> 00:51:00,420

I noticed your beauty, but it's

actually just, it's the, it's, it's the

:

00:51:00,420 --> 00:51:03,670

manifestation, which is probably not

a great word for a song, but it's the

:

00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:05,260

symbol of what's actually inside you.

:

00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:05,830

That was

:

00:51:05,830 --> 00:51:06,270

my point.

:

00:51:06,330 --> 00:51:07,080

Lauren Lucas: Yeah, I get

:

00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:07,360

that.

:

00:51:07,426 --> 00:51:09,953

I get that.

:

00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,870

So I'm going to jump to the chorus

first, or what I would consider as the

:

00:51:13,870 --> 00:51:16,450

chorus, which is speak sweet

spirit speak to me tonight,

:

00:51:16,450 --> 00:51:17,630

where it starts that stanza.

:

00:51:18,230 --> 00:51:21,230

The chorus is pretty much there.

:

00:51:21,230 --> 00:51:23,620

The only thing I would do

differently in that chorus is

:

00:51:23,620 --> 00:51:25,730

I would add a tiny little word.

:

00:51:26,300 --> 00:51:29,450

I want to bottle you up

and drink you in all night.

:

00:51:30,740 --> 00:51:31,450

There's just something about

:

00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:32,410

phrasing.

:

00:51:34,750 --> 00:51:35,200

Well,

:

00:51:35,770 --> 00:51:40,930

and, and I think the idea to drink

you all night and to drink you in

:

00:51:40,930 --> 00:51:43,240

all night, I think drink you in all

:

00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:46,290

night makes a little more

sense, but I don't like

:

00:51:46,290 --> 00:51:49,940

phrasing when the next little

syllable just adds to the wilt.

:

00:51:50,780 --> 00:51:51,820

Um, so sweet.

:

00:51:52,215 --> 00:52:00,545

So, um, if I hear this in like four, four

time sweet spirit speak to me tonight,

:

00:52:02,225 --> 00:52:06,815

sweet spirit wrap around me tight.

:

00:52:07,015 --> 00:52:09,065

That's see, that's what we call parallel

:

00:52:09,065 --> 00:52:09,505

lines.

:

00:52:09,825 --> 00:52:10,425

So it's.

:

00:52:11,246 --> 00:52:14,825

Speak to me tonight, wrap around me tight.

:

00:52:14,975 --> 00:52:16,715

Same exact syllable count.

:

00:52:17,475 --> 00:52:19,645

So, um, so that's catchy.

:

00:52:19,645 --> 00:52:20,265

That's good.

:

00:52:20,265 --> 00:52:20,955

Good start.

:

00:52:21,245 --> 00:52:27,635

Um, so I want to bottle you

up and drink in all night.

:

00:52:27,705 --> 00:52:28,535

So you've kind of got that.

:

00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,320

in the first part of that phrase.

:

00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,360

And then in the last part, if you

add the end, I want to bottle you

:

00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,700

and drink you in all night.

:

00:52:39,410 --> 00:52:43,700

And then please sweet

spirit speak to me tonight.

:

00:52:44,030 --> 00:52:46,360

So I think the chorus

is actually quite tight.

:

00:52:46,420 --> 00:52:48,150

And I think just adding that in would

:

00:52:48,420 --> 00:52:49,550

would make it even stronger.

:

00:52:50,370 --> 00:52:54,705

The verse one, um, Also,

what you've got going.

:

00:52:55,185 --> 00:52:56,015

So you wrote this.

:

00:52:56,015 --> 00:52:56,365

Yes.

:

00:52:57,725 --> 00:52:58,055

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

:

00:52:58,105 --> 00:52:58,275

Yeah.

:

00:52:58,515 --> 00:52:58,855

Lauren Lucas: Okay.

:

00:52:59,055 --> 00:53:02,925

So what you've got going for yourself

already right off the bat, and maybe this

:

00:53:02,935 --> 00:53:07,965

is your journalistic, uh, background,

but a journalist background, I should

:

00:53:07,965 --> 00:53:11,405

say, but we want to always, um.

:

00:53:13,615 --> 00:53:19,945

Whether you start with an idea first,

or whether you're more of a writer that

:

00:53:19,945 --> 00:53:24,855

just kind of strums and like whatever

comes to you, you just start to sing.

:

00:53:25,125 --> 00:53:26,225

However it comes to you,

:

00:53:26,275 --> 00:53:30,955

eventually you have to wrap it into what

we call a North Star for commercial music.

:

00:53:30,985 --> 00:53:32,555

Now if you You know, right.

:

00:53:32,555 --> 00:53:35,525

If you just want to write poetry

and whatever, then like, you

:

00:53:35,525 --> 00:53:36,465

can do it however you want.

:

00:53:36,475 --> 00:53:41,255

But for commercial songwriting, um,

usually a song needs to point to a

:

00:53:41,255 --> 00:53:43,585

north star, uh, is what we call it.

:

00:53:43,665 --> 00:53:46,795

So there is an overarching main idea.

:

00:53:46,985 --> 00:53:51,755

You should be able to tell me what

this song is about in a phrase.

:

00:53:52,995 --> 00:53:55,495

Or a sentence, which

you pretty much you did

:

00:53:55,825 --> 00:53:56,375

to start this off.

:

00:53:56,685 --> 00:53:57,185

You did.

:

00:53:57,705 --> 00:54:00,835

Um, so you've got a

good strong North star.

:

00:54:00,835 --> 00:54:04,465

We know exactly what the song is

about and all the lyrics are about

:

00:54:04,475 --> 00:54:08,465

the same North star idea the whole

way through, which is what you want.

:

00:54:08,475 --> 00:54:11,055

You want the North star to guide you.

:

00:54:11,065 --> 00:54:12,555

That's what a North star does, right?

:

00:54:12,875 --> 00:54:13,905

To guide you,

:

00:54:14,325 --> 00:54:20,335

uh, so that you know where to point

all of your lyrics, but you also

:

00:54:20,485 --> 00:54:22,723

don't want to repeat the song.

:

00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,910

The same information

over and over and over.

:

00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,530

You want it to be varied enough

so that verse one is a slightly

:

00:54:30,530 --> 00:54:32,910

different angle than verse two.

:

00:54:32,930 --> 00:54:34,190

Like if you were to shine.

:

00:54:35,220 --> 00:54:38,070

Lights with different film colors on them.

:

00:54:38,860 --> 00:54:42,960

It's all, all the lights are still in the

same theater, but there's a red light here

:

00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:48,210

and a blue light here, casting different

glows on the, on the stage kind of thing,

:

00:54:48,210 --> 00:54:49,480

and that's how the verses should be.

:

00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,500

So, um, there's a lot of repetition

using this word spirit throughout

:

00:54:54,530 --> 00:54:58,660

the whole thing, and I would

probably save that for the chorus.

:

00:54:59,370 --> 00:54:59,930

So it's a little,

:

00:55:00,070 --> 00:55:00,190

Jason English (Host): it.

:

00:55:00,190 --> 00:55:00,530

Okay.

:

00:55:01,180 --> 00:55:01,370

Yeah.

:

00:55:01,370 --> 00:55:01,670

Yeah.

:

00:55:02,050 --> 00:55:02,420

Okay.

:

00:55:02,550 --> 00:55:06,770

Lauren Lucas: say there's something,

um, I mean, okay, maybe I could

:

00:55:06,780 --> 00:55:08,050

give you the very first line.

:

00:55:08,730 --> 00:55:11,280

you're you're introducing

the idea of the sweet spirit.

:

00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:12,240

Um,

:

00:55:13,220 --> 00:55:18,360

it's a, it's a feeling that's

pure, maybe in that next, uh,

:

00:55:18,650 --> 00:55:24,880

line or a, a light or a, an essence,

that's kind of a stuffy word to use for

:

00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,870

this kind of song, but I don't know.

:

00:55:26,900 --> 00:55:28,970

Anyway, it would maybe

something else in that second

:

00:55:28,970 --> 00:55:29,390

line

:

00:55:29,970 --> 00:55:30,320

Jason English (Host): Okay.

:

00:55:30,790 --> 00:55:31,170

Lauren Lucas: with no

:

00:55:31,410 --> 00:55:32,470

Jason English (Host):

And what, what do I do?

:

00:55:32,710 --> 00:55:37,580

Like man, like, you know, manifestation,

like that's a big, fancy word probably

:

00:55:37,580 --> 00:55:41,030

doesn't go well in a song now that I've

read now that I've put it down there.

:

00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:45,740

But so when you have a word like that,

is that something where you bring out

:

00:55:45,740 --> 00:55:49,810

the, uh, the rhyming book, you know,

or like, you know, Google like rhyming

:

00:55:49,820 --> 00:55:53,470

words or not rhyming words, but like

synonyms, you know, to, to sort of.

:

00:55:53,885 --> 00:55:56,025

Like, how do you, how do

you work around that word?

:

00:55:56,835 --> 00:55:56,975

You

:

00:55:57,115 --> 00:55:59,415

Lauren Lucas: So I would say,

how did you say it when you

:

00:55:59,415 --> 00:56:00,835

first introduced the idea to me?

:

00:56:00,835 --> 00:56:03,755

You said manifestation, and then you said,

that's probably not the greatest word,

:

00:56:03,755 --> 00:56:05,935

but it's like, and then you, you said it

:

00:56:06,075 --> 00:56:08,065

Jason English (Host): it's like

the symbol it's like the beauty

:

00:56:08,065 --> 00:56:13,895

actually is the, it's how it's

manifested in, in, in, in real life.

:

00:56:13,915 --> 00:56:16,325

Cause you can't really

see the spirit, right?

:

00:56:16,355 --> 00:56:19,705

Like it, you know, it, it, it's

seen through actions and through

:

00:56:19,705 --> 00:56:23,355

everything else, but there's something

like untouchable anyway, I don't,

:

00:56:23,405 --> 00:56:24,565

yeah, that's what I was getting

:

00:56:24,675 --> 00:56:24,745

at

:

00:56:24,795 --> 00:56:25,185

or trying to

:

00:56:25,245 --> 00:56:25,765

Lauren Lucas: is a good word.

:

00:56:25,865 --> 00:56:26,455

Um,

:

00:56:27,175 --> 00:56:27,415

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

:

00:56:27,475 --> 00:56:27,955

Lauren Lucas: so I,

:

00:56:28,145 --> 00:56:32,505

so this is kind of a taste thing,

but I would, I would argue that

:

00:56:32,505 --> 00:56:36,475

it's also a principle for commercial

songwriting, which is to say it.

:

00:56:36,730 --> 00:56:37,160

Jason English (Host): Right?

:

00:56:37,535 --> 00:56:37,965

Lauren Lucas: Write it.

:

00:56:37,975 --> 00:56:41,315

the way you'd say it in

conversation is, I'm a fan of that.

:

00:56:41,465 --> 00:56:41,765

So

:

00:56:44,815 --> 00:56:49,635

you have to use that word naturally in

conversation and explaining the idea, but

:

00:56:51,035 --> 00:56:51,245

I don't

:

00:56:51,245 --> 00:56:51,525

know.

:

00:56:51,565 --> 00:56:56,595

Is there a more casual conversational

way of saying It It's not that you

:

00:56:56,595 --> 00:56:58,875

can't make manifestation

work in a commercial song.

:

00:56:58,885 --> 00:57:03,735

You probably could, but there, there might

be a different way to say it that's more

:

00:57:03,735 --> 00:57:07,365

casual, more conversational and more, um,

:

00:57:08,025 --> 00:57:12,375

along the lines of how the rest of

the vernacular sounds in your song.

:

00:57:12,465 --> 00:57:13,955

So it's all kind of matches.

:

00:57:14,615 --> 00:57:16,445

Um, so maybe you would say something like,

:

00:57:16,505 --> 00:57:17,125

um,

:

00:57:20,835 --> 00:57:25,505

Your beauty can't hide what's

deep down inside or I don't

:

00:57:25,515 --> 00:57:26,535

know, something like that.

:

00:57:26,545 --> 00:57:27,705

That's kind of what you're trying to say,

:

00:57:27,706 --> 00:57:28,585

I think.

:

00:57:28,975 --> 00:57:31,085

And then you would go for a different

:

00:57:31,085 --> 00:57:33,625

rhyme, obviously, in that next

line, an I'd rhyme at the end.

:

00:57:34,670 --> 00:57:35,030

Jason English (Host): Right.

:

00:57:35,805 --> 00:57:38,055

Lauren Lucas: you never want to, um,

:

00:57:42,205 --> 00:57:45,905

you don't want to cram a word in that

rhymes just for the sake of rhyming,

:

00:57:47,460 --> 00:57:47,690

Jason English (Host): Got

:

00:57:47,690 --> 00:57:47,990

it.

:

00:57:48,455 --> 00:57:53,925

Lauren Lucas: which that was another thing

I noticed is framed by lips so fresh.

:

00:57:54,175 --> 00:57:59,355

Like the syllable count, the

phrasing, that works, but it

:

00:57:59,355 --> 00:58:00,795

just sounded like you needed to

:

00:58:00,795 --> 00:58:01,245

rhyme.

:

00:58:01,255 --> 00:58:03,555

It's not like the way you

would actually say a problem.

:

00:58:04,475 --> 00:58:05,875

So I, I,

:

00:58:05,875 --> 00:58:09,580

would encourage you to Dig

just a little bit deeper.

:

00:58:09,630 --> 00:58:14,510

And if you cannot find a rhyme word

that says it in a way that, or a line

:

00:58:14,510 --> 00:58:19,140

that ends with a rhyme you need, that

really says it, that's another way to

:

00:58:19,140 --> 00:58:22,170

think of the truth, like framed by lip.

:

00:58:22,170 --> 00:58:25,010

So fresh isn't true.

:

00:58:25,180 --> 00:58:28,010

It's, it's cramming a rhyme

in how would you say it

:

00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,100

truthfully and let that guide

:

00:58:31,100 --> 00:58:34,490

you, and then you're going to, that means

you might have to change your rhyme.

:

00:58:35,380 --> 00:58:39,690

Um, And then if you cannot find

a rhyme, then you start changing

:

00:58:39,690 --> 00:58:43,930

your line length and you start just

keep saying it differently until

:

00:58:43,930 --> 00:58:48,320

you can fit those puzzle pieces

together where it really is natural.

:

00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:50,310

Jason English (Host): Wow.

:

00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,470

Um, yeah, that's really great.

:

00:58:54,470 --> 00:59:00,220

So is that in that hopefully that

like kind of a cheesy example,

:

00:59:00,220 --> 00:59:03,470

but is that kind of how it goes

when you co write with somebody?

:

00:59:03,935 --> 00:59:04,265

Lauren Lucas: Yeah.

:

00:59:04,265 --> 00:59:04,725

I mean,

:

00:59:06,925 --> 00:59:07,905

it just, it depends.

:

00:59:08,015 --> 00:59:13,535

I mean, sometimes someone will bring

in something and Man, the entire first

:

00:59:13,535 --> 00:59:16,945

half of the song is tight as can be

and it's like, I just didn't know

:

00:59:16,945 --> 00:59:19,555

where to, I didn't know what the other

angle for the second verse should be.

:

00:59:19,605 --> 00:59:21,865

You know, I just can't think of

another way to see this thing.

:

00:59:22,205 --> 00:59:23,805

So the story didn't have a place to grow.

:

00:59:23,945 --> 00:59:25,635

And so you just write the second verse.

:

00:59:25,655 --> 00:59:30,285

Or, um, or yeah, I mean, sometimes

someone would bring something in and,

:

00:59:30,755 --> 00:59:36,225

and, you know, If the other writer might

think, Oh, it's just not quite there.

:

00:59:36,225 --> 00:59:40,055

Or this sounds a little stuffy or, or

this sounds crammed in there, you know?

:

00:59:40,445 --> 00:59:44,195

And so then it's just this

kind of dance of diplomacy.

:

00:59:44,345 --> 00:59:46,525

It also depends on how well

you know, the, the co writer.

:

00:59:46,525 --> 00:59:49,585

I mean, if you have a really long

relationship with somebody and you,

:

00:59:49,665 --> 00:59:55,375

you feel really comfortable being

honest, never be mean, uh, and

:

00:59:55,375 --> 00:59:56,815

to me being too blunt, is it just

:

00:59:56,815 --> 00:59:58,795

another form of being unkind?

:

00:59:58,795 --> 01:00:00,685

So I don't think you

should ever be unkind.

:

01:00:01,095 --> 01:00:01,485

But.

:

01:00:01,995 --> 01:00:04,535

If you know someone really

well, you can be like, man,

:

01:00:04,535 --> 01:00:05,535

I just don't think that's it.

:

01:00:05,575 --> 01:00:09,855

You know, let's, let's keep looking

there or, um, but if it's a new co write,

:

01:00:09,855 --> 01:00:14,195

you might go, you know, I was thinking on

this line, um, what if it was something

:

01:00:14,195 --> 01:00:17,895

more like this, you know, and you're not,

you're just kind of, there's just this

:

01:00:17,895 --> 01:00:24,335

like dance and it's, it's very rare that

you should really just say no in the room.

:

01:00:24,735 --> 01:00:30,485

Um, it's finding ways of

diverting to another idea because.

:

01:00:31,890 --> 01:00:34,200

You really don't want to

lose any ideas in the room.

:

01:00:34,210 --> 01:00:36,840

You don't, you, you don't want

to shut the other person down

:

01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:38,310

because you need their brain power.

:

01:00:38,790 --> 01:00:39,450

And.

:

01:00:40,995 --> 01:00:45,425

And all, all of the ideas in the

room, it gets chaotic and messy,

:

01:00:45,475 --> 01:00:47,035

but at least it's out there.

:

01:00:47,035 --> 01:00:49,735

So then you can pick and choose

from the best stuff, you know?

:

01:00:50,275 --> 01:00:53,075

So, um, you kind of, you

don't, nothing is wasted.

:

01:00:53,135 --> 01:00:54,105

Nothing is wasted.

:

01:00:54,115 --> 01:00:55,285

The, the line that's not

:

01:00:55,285 --> 01:00:56,035

quite Right.

:

01:00:56,245 --> 01:00:58,075

is going to get you to

the line that is right.

:

01:00:58,115 --> 01:00:59,195

So you need all of it.

:

01:01:00,305 --> 01:01:00,685

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

:

01:01:01,345 --> 01:01:04,675

I mean, it's got to be a

vulnerable process, right?

:

01:01:05,695 --> 01:01:09,595

Especially if it is three chords in the

truth, like if it is or if it's personal.

:

01:01:09,655 --> 01:01:12,285

So there's got to be some trust there.

:

01:01:12,285 --> 01:01:14,565

I would imagine like to kind

of to your point, right?

:

01:01:14,865 --> 01:01:15,965

I can't imagine.

:

01:01:16,755 --> 01:01:19,075

Well, I guess you have to do

it because, you know, you don't

:

01:01:19,085 --> 01:01:20,095

know everybody all the time.

:

01:01:20,095 --> 01:01:23,885

So you have to kind of build that rapport

and camaraderie that that's got to be

:

01:01:23,915 --> 01:01:25,455

an important part of that whole process.

:

01:01:27,165 --> 01:01:30,015

Lauren Lucas: Well, if you don't know

the person well, usually the first hour

:

01:01:30,015 --> 01:01:32,335

or so is just getting to know them.

:

01:01:32,345 --> 01:01:34,415

And, uh, and oftentimes we'll turn into a

:

01:01:34,415 --> 01:01:37,715

therapy session, you know, uh,

depending on how open that person

:

01:01:37,715 --> 01:01:37,815

is.

:

01:01:38,525 --> 01:01:41,505

Um, and then it, it also just

depends on like, are you writing

:

01:01:41,505 --> 01:01:44,175

with a friend and y'all are both

trying to get a cut together?

:

01:01:44,205 --> 01:01:47,765

Are you writing for an artist and

they really want to share their story

:

01:01:47,765 --> 01:01:48,495

and their heart?

:

01:01:48,895 --> 01:01:53,245

Um, and then it's learning about

them and you know, there's,

:

01:01:53,335 --> 01:01:56,375

there's lots of different, there's

a lot of different nuance to it.

:

01:01:57,395 --> 01:01:57,545

You

:

01:01:57,545 --> 01:01:58,285

want to do it?

:

01:01:58,375 --> 01:01:59,935

Jason English (Host): That's really,

that's really, it's fascinating.

:

01:01:59,945 --> 01:02:00,285

Yeah.

:

01:02:00,305 --> 01:02:01,025

It's fascinating.

:

01:02:01,195 --> 01:02:02,225

Well, thank you for humoring

:

01:02:02,225 --> 01:02:02,575

me

:

01:02:02,665 --> 01:02:03,885

on that process.

:

01:02:04,015 --> 01:02:04,035

Lauren Lucas: do.

:

01:02:04,465 --> 01:02:05,695

I encourage you to finish it.

:

01:02:05,695 --> 01:02:12,065

I encourage you to, um, to not repeat

the word spirit in that verse too much

:

01:02:12,125 --> 01:02:15,845

and tighten those lines up at the end

and just say it the way you would say

:

01:02:15,845 --> 01:02:17,805

it and then find that next line rhymes.

:

01:02:18,135 --> 01:02:21,185

And then I encourage you

on verse two to like,

:

01:02:23,285 --> 01:02:26,695

okay, I've covered that I've

covered like Some of the physical

:

01:02:26,705 --> 01:02:31,775

attributes and, and setting up like

this is, this is what it is now.

:

01:02:31,785 --> 01:02:34,675

How am I going to talk about her

spirit in a slightly different way

:

01:02:34,675 --> 01:02:37,845

for the second verse and go for

a second verse and finish it up?

:

01:02:39,985 --> 01:02:40,795

Jason English (Host):

Well, I appreciate that.

:

01:02:40,805 --> 01:02:41,375

That's awesome.

:

01:02:41,425 --> 01:02:41,695

All right.

:

01:02:41,695 --> 01:02:46,225

So back to you we'll wrap up, I

uess it's it's middle part of:

:

01:02:46,660 --> 01:02:50,190

Um, what do you, what do you have planned

sort of the rest of the year and maybe

:

01:02:50,250 --> 01:02:54,630

even into next year besides being a mom

and podcast host and by the way, it's,

:

01:02:54,660 --> 01:02:56,040

it's called the happiest hour, right?

:

01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:56,770

The podcast that you

:

01:02:56,770 --> 01:02:57,020

do.

:

01:02:57,675 --> 01:02:57,985

Lauren Lucas: it is.

:

01:02:58,805 --> 01:03:05,505

It is actually, um, I have not spent as

much effort and energy on the podcast

:

01:03:05,925 --> 01:03:11,285

lately only because, you know, I've been

putting out so much music lately that it's

:

01:03:11,295 --> 01:03:14,645

just hard as you know, as a podcaster to.

:

01:03:15,095 --> 01:03:15,775

Just to keep all

:

01:03:15,775 --> 01:03:21,915

the plates in the air, but I have, um,

a full season that is up, uh, with a

:

01:03:21,915 --> 01:03:25,445

few bonus episodes and I have one more

bonus episode that I am going to roll

:

01:03:25,445 --> 01:03:28,615

out, uh, here, uh, sooner than later.

:

01:03:28,645 --> 01:03:35,140

And, um, I have guests like Cindy

Thompson, Jenny Gill, uh, Whitney Duncan.

:

01:03:35,140 --> 01:03:37,995

I mean, some really great

singer, songwriters, people

:

01:03:37,995 --> 01:03:40,365

in film, uh, wellness coaches.

:

01:03:40,415 --> 01:03:43,875

So it's, it is, it's a

really fun podcast, I think.

:

01:03:44,145 --> 01:03:48,920

Um, Although I don't have any

plans to, to like to reboot another

:

01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:51,770

season at the moment because

I'm working so much on music.

:

01:03:52,170 --> 01:03:55,790

Um, but behind the scenes,

I'm writing still for a lot

:

01:03:55,790 --> 01:03:57,960

of TV and film sync briefs.

:

01:03:57,990 --> 01:04:03,890

And then I had the great honor of

singing on one of my, um, heroes albums.

:

01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,830

I don't know if I'm allowed

to talk about who that is.

:

01:04:06,830 --> 01:04:10,460

I don't even know when it's coming out

yet, but, um, I'm real excited about that.

:

01:04:10,470 --> 01:04:11,400

So keep your eye out.

:

01:04:11,410 --> 01:04:13,050

I'm sure it'll probably be next year.

:

01:04:13,430 --> 01:04:14,790

Um, but I, I got a chance

:

01:04:14,790 --> 01:04:18,890

to sing on two tracks for, for an

upcoming album for one of my heroes.

:

01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:24,190

Uh, and then, um, I have new music

coming out, uh, the rest of the year.

:

01:04:24,190 --> 01:04:31,970

Um, I was, I was working on a Christmas

EP with some friends and, uh, I, I'm

:

01:04:31,970 --> 01:04:33,390

hoping that's still going to happen.

:

01:04:33,390 --> 01:04:33,960

We'll see.

:

01:04:33,970 --> 01:04:34,460

We'll see.

:

01:04:34,490 --> 01:04:38,310

But I, um, but I am in the middle

of recording my next single now,

:

01:04:38,350 --> 01:04:41,590

and, uh, I'm going to get a little

bit further along before I reveal

:

01:04:41,630 --> 01:04:43,040

what it is and when it's coming out.

:

01:04:43,925 --> 01:04:44,415

Jason English (Host): Awesome.

:

01:04:44,725 --> 01:04:44,925

All right.

:

01:04:44,925 --> 01:04:48,385

Well, we'll look forward to that and,

uh, really appreciate your time, Lauren.

:

01:04:48,385 --> 01:04:49,125

Thank you so much.

:

01:04:49,135 --> 01:04:50,404

It was, it was a pleasure

to talk with you.

:

01:04:50,404 --> 01:04:53,425

Thanks for sharing all the

insights and all the things.

:

01:04:53,435 --> 01:04:57,935

So, uh, best of luck to you crush

it at the blue bird in August.

:

01:04:57,985 --> 01:05:01,605

And, um, Yeah, we, we look forward

to seeing more and hearing more.

:

01:05:01,625 --> 01:05:02,095

So thank

:

01:05:02,095 --> 01:05:02,315

you so

:

01:05:02,315 --> 01:05:02,725

much.

:

01:05:02,910 --> 01:05:03,320

Lauren Lucas: Awesome.

:

01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,640

Well, I hope that your

listeners, um, if they're.

:

01:05:05,915 --> 01:05:08,835

In Tennessee or I think I have

another show coming up in South

:

01:05:08,835 --> 01:05:10,425

Carolina before the end of the year.

:

01:05:10,705 --> 01:05:12,654

I'm, I'm kind of all over the place.

:

01:05:12,725 --> 01:05:16,665

So, uh, so you can find all of it, the

podcasts and music tour dates, all that.

:

01:05:16,665 --> 01:05:17,285

Lauren Lucas.

:

01:05:17,465 --> 01:05:21,255

com is probably, probably the best

spot, but I hope to maybe meet some

:

01:05:21,255 --> 01:05:22,404

of your listeners out on the road.

:

01:05:23,865 --> 01:05:24,885

Jason English (Host):

Thanks so much, Lauren.

:

01:05:25,065 --> 01:05:27,035

Uh, well, thanks so much, Lauren.

:

01:05:27,365 --> 01:05:28,275

Would you play us a song

:

01:05:28,275 --> 01:05:28,975

Lauren Lucas: Oh, I'd love to.

:

01:05:28,995 --> 01:05:29,765

Yeah, for sure.

:

01:05:31,235 --> 01:05:31,555

Jason English (Host): Okay.

:

01:05:31,654 --> 01:05:32,115

Awesome.

:

01:05:32,255 --> 01:05:33,025

Thanks again, Lauren.

:

01:05:33,475 --> 01:05:33,975

Cheers.

:

01:05:35,275 --> 01:05:35,725

Lauren Lucas: Bye.

:

01:05:35,735 --> 01:05:36,245

Thanks.

:

01:05:50,275 --> 01:05:52,065

It's another day in the life.

:

01:05:53,020 --> 01:05:53,960

I've hidden the jacket

:

01:05:57,350 --> 01:06:03,633

up before dawn with an elbow to the face.

:

01:06:03,633 --> 01:06:08,590

If your little man don't feel

good, he's crying beside you.

:

01:06:09,390 --> 01:06:12,800

He's got a husband sound asleep.

:

01:06:13,715 --> 01:06:23,076

I don't mind, but you wouldn't trade

me even for a longer night's sleep.

:

01:06:23,076 --> 01:06:31,619

No, you wouldn't take a minute

even when the shit gets deep.

:

01:06:31,619 --> 01:06:40,406

You paid for For it, you laid for it,

couldn't wait another day for it, when the

:

01:06:40,406 --> 01:06:44,595

hardest job's the one you love the most.

:

01:06:44,595 --> 01:06:50,485

That's how you know, if

you hit the mother load,

:

01:06:58,435 --> 01:07:02,900

teen years fly by, just like a minute.

:

01:07:02,900 --> 01:07:09,225

He's forcing down the hatch

of his hand and I'm shivering.

:

01:07:12,345 --> 01:07:20,010

My heart starts feelin a lot like

his empty bedroom When his daylight

:

01:07:20,010 --> 01:07:28,663

disappears You wonder how you'll ever

be okay But you might hate a minute,

:

01:07:28,663 --> 01:07:32,336

even for a longer night's sleep.

:

01:07:32,336 --> 01:07:37,845

Take a minute, even

when the shit gets deep.

:

01:07:37,845 --> 01:07:42,742

You prayed for it, you made for it.

:

01:07:42,742 --> 01:07:46,413

Couldn't wait another day for it.

:

01:07:46,413 --> 01:07:52,535

When the heart is down

someone you love the most.

:

01:07:52,535 --> 01:07:55,595

Girl, that's how you know.

:

01:07:57,795 --> 01:08:01,071

You hit the mother in law.

:

01:08:01,071 --> 01:08:04,798

Had a hundred to tell them.

:

01:08:04,798 --> 01:08:08,524

But you know they won't listen.

:

01:08:08,524 --> 01:08:14,114

But one day they're gonna

ask for your advice.

:

01:08:14,114 --> 01:08:19,082

You know you've made a lot of mistakes.

:

01:08:19,082 --> 01:08:20,325

Oh, but

:

01:08:28,665 --> 01:08:31,935

mama you must have done something right.

:

01:08:35,645 --> 01:08:36,015

Jamie.

:

01:08:36,981 --> 01:08:41,840

Even for a longer night's sleep.

:

01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:47,901

No, you wouldn't take a minute,

even when the shake gets deep.

:

01:08:47,901 --> 01:08:57,522

You prayed for it, you made for it, you

couldn't wait another day for it, when the

:

01:08:57,522 --> 01:09:02,050

heart is found someone you love the most.

:

01:09:06,395 --> 01:09:07,135

You hear the.

:

01:09:48,663 --> 01:09:50,224

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

:

01:09:50,224 --> 01:09:52,014

episode of Curious Goldfish.

:

01:09:52,453 --> 01:09:55,734

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

:

01:09:56,314 --> 01:09:58,934

Also tell your music loving

friends about us too.

:

01:09:59,664 --> 01:10:01,784

Until next time, stay curious.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Support Our Curiosity

This is a Passion Project.
We don't have ambitions to make millions, but we do have ambitions to inspire millions. You can help by supporting the effort with a one-time donation. It helps pay for ongoing website hosting, podcast hosting and social media marketing fees.
Support
A
Anonymous $100
Frapp and Sally

Listen for free

Show artwork for Curious Goldfish

About the Podcast

Curious Goldfish
A Community Where Inquisitiveness and Music Come Together. Inspired by the Mindset of Ted Lasso.
Launching in 2024, the Curious Goldfish Brand is inspired by two episodes from the First Season of the Apple TV+ Series Ted Lasso.

The “Goldfish” reference is about the importance of not dwelling on mistakes in life. In an early episode, Ted Lasso, the series’ namesake asks one of his players – after they were badly beaten in a play during training – what the happiest animal on earth is. The answer: A Goldfish, because it has a 10-second memory. Lasso encourages the player to forget the mistake and to not let it hinder his mindset. In other words, to “Be a Goldfish.” The “Curious” reference is born from another Season 1 episode where Ted finds himself in a dart match at a local Pub with a ruthless Football Club Owner. Lasso references a quote from Walt Whitman to “Be Curious, Not Judgmental.”

So “Being a Goldfish” is a great start, but curiosity is an undervalued trait in today’s world. We don’t ask enough questions; we don’t inquire enough about each other and about life. So I want people to be “Curious Goldfish.”

The initial premise of the podcast will center around my curiosity about music. I can’t sing. I don’t play a musical instrument, but I am inspired by artists who are vulnerable enough to put their thoughts down and then share them with the entire world. I’m curious about the songwriting process; I’m curious about a musician’s journey; I’m curious about the business of music; I’m curious about who or what inspires a sad song, a love song - and everything in between.

Though the initial premise is music, we will likely spend time discussing and highlighting all-things Ted Lasso. In its three seasons, it inspired the host in so many ways (work, personal, relationships etc).

The musical focus of the Curious Goldfish Podcast will center around up-and-coming artists primarily in rock, roots, folk, Country and Americana genres. Not every aspiring musician will earn $100 million from Spotify streaming like Taylor Swift. Our goal is to shine a light on those artists who have as few as 100 monthly listeners to those with more than 100,000. Their stories deserve to be heard because your music can inspire, and it’s time you had a chance to share them.
Support This Show

About your host

Profile picture for Jason English

Jason English

Tech Exec by Day, Music Lover Day and Night. Former Journalist who is trying to be a middle-aged William Miller from the Movie Almost Famous. Also, Ted Lasso changed his life...so there's that.